(February 19, 2015 at 10:19 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 19, 2015 at 9:57 am)Losty Wrote: Of course I wouldn't abandon you, Ricky. You're my future life husband. If I'm ever gone too long again, you can always come find me.

What you been up too in here, love?

Well, i just was trying to reason with some mates of mine about whether the universe is made of matter only or require a mind to run it.
They reckon that this universe is like some sort of zombie that can run without a mind.
It is all very funny and at the same time too frighten to think that our life is in the hands of zombies.

Wow, a zombie universe. That's some pretty exciting stuff. Maybe they'll make a movie of it.

What if we're the zombies and the Universe is truly alive?!

(February 19, 2015 at 6:43 am)Riketto Wrote:

Quote:The question is very very simple.
It say..............DO YOU THINK THAT THE UNIVERSE CAN EXIST WITHOUT A MIND & CONSCIOUSNESS OR NOT?

Quote:Yes, the universe can exist without a mind. Like a rock can exist without anyone observing it.

So, you got the evidence that God is not there to observe the rock and to mantain this external projection in his mind?
Let us see this evidence.

And that's what I was referring to. You assumed god exist, then ask me how do I know god isn't observing god. Your assumption that god exist isn't valid. Hence, your question is pointless.

(February 19, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(February 19, 2015 at 6:43 am)Riketto Wrote: So, you got the evidence that God is not there to observe the rock and to mantain this external projection in his mind?
Let us see this evidence.

And that's what I was referring to. You assumed god exist, then ask me how do I know god isn't observing god. Your assumption that god exist isn't valid. Hence, your question is pointless.

You are the one who make a claim not me.
I am asking people whether the universe can or can not exist without a mind.
This is not a claim or as you say an assumption.
And then i make a comment about your claim in which YOU say ............Yes,the universe can exist without a mind. Like a rock can exist without anyone observing it.
My comment to your comment say........So, you got the evidence that God is not there to observe the rock and to mantain this external projection in his mind?
This comment of mine once again is not a claim that God exist or is looking at the rock.
It is rather a question referring to your comment that the universe can exist without a mind.
Surely, hypothetically speaking a mind could also be Father Christmas or anybody else other than God.
In my answer i didn't claim that God is the one who look at the rock.
On the other hand you claim that the universe can exist without a mind.
How do you know that this is the case?
Have you got evidence that this is true?
So let us see your evidence.

(February 20, 2015 at 10:49 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 19, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Surgenator Wrote: And that's what I was referring to. You assumed god exist, then ask me how do I know god isn't observing god. Your assumption that god exist isn't valid. Hence, your question is pointless.

You are the one who make a claim not me.
I am asking people whether the universe can or can not exist without a mind.
This is not a claim or as you say an assumption.
And then i make a comment about your claim in which YOU say ............Yes,the universe can exist without a mind. Like a rock can exist without anyone observing it.
My comment to your comment say........So, you got the evidence that God is not there to observe the rock and to mantain this external projection in his mind?
This comment of mine once again is not a claim that God exist or is looking at the rock.
It is rather a question referring to your comment that the universe can exist without a mind.
Surely, hypothetically speaking a mind could also be Father Christmas or anybody else other than God.
In my answer i didn't claim that God is the one who look at the rock.
On the other hand you claim that the universe can exist without a mind.
How do you know that this is the case?
Have you got evidence that this is true?
So let us see your evidence.

I don't have evidence that God exist. I don't have evidence the tooth fairy exist. Guess what is the rational thing to do? Assume they don't exist until evidence is presented that they do exist. Hence, your question about a non-existent being observing a rock is stupid.

I can show how a rock exist without any existing being observing it. I can put a rock in a closed box with a video camera. Come back in five to ten minutes and review the tape. Guess what I'll find?

(February 20, 2015 at 1:12 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(February 20, 2015 at 10:49 am)Riketto Wrote: You are the one who make a claim not me.
I am asking people whether the universe can or can not exist without a mind.
This is not a claim or as you say an assumption.
And then i make a comment about your claim in which YOU say ............Yes,the universe can exist without a mind. Like a rock can exist without anyone observing it.
My comment to your comment say........So, you got the evidence that God is not there to observe the rock and to mantain this external projection in his mind?
This comment of mine once again is not a claim that God exist or is looking at the rock.
It is rather a question referring to your comment that the universe can exist without a mind.
Surely, hypothetically speaking a mind could also be Father Christmas or anybody else other than God.
In my answer i didn't claim that God is the one who look at the rock.
On the other hand you claim that the universe can exist without a mind.
How do you know that this is the case?
Have you got evidence that this is true?
So let us see your evidence.

I don't have evidence that God exist. I don't have evidence the tooth fairy exist. Guess what is the rational thing to do? Assume they don't exist until evidence is presented that they do exist. Hence, your question about a non-existent being observing a rock is stupid.

I can show how a rock exist without any existing being observing it. I can put a rock in a closed box with a video camera. Come back in five to ten minutes and review the tape. Guess what I'll find?

Very very silly comment surgen but what to expect from someone who believe only in the material-physical-mental life?
Suppose that a mind or an hypothetical God is there to witness the rock?
How suppose a camera be able to film someone who doesn't have a body?
You never thought this way surgen, did you?

(February 21, 2015 at 9:18 am)Riketto Wrote: You never thought this way surgen, did you?

He doesn't strike me as a lunatic, so I'd assume that he never did think of it that way.

(February 21, 2015 at 9:37 am)Tonus Wrote:

(February 21, 2015 at 9:18 am)Riketto Wrote: You never thought this way surgen, did you?

He doesn't strike me as a lunatic, so I'd assume that he never did think of it that way.

That's the problem with atheism.
The options are very very limited to the physical side of yourselves but again if you live only once it should be ok.
The problem is if there is more than one life.
In that case you may realize that your previous life was wasted in a giant mental masturbation.
Just hope that you are right and everything will be fine.

(February 21, 2015 at 10:02 am)Riketto Wrote: The problem is if there is more than one life.

Ahh, Pascal's Wager: the idea that I should waste my life chasing "things" I cannot experience until after I die, on the highly-improbable chance that I selected the right "thing."

Frankly, it seems to me that the person who follows one particular god or religion or spiritual path might be taking the bigger gamble. After all, it's only a relatively small set of gods that will punish you in the afterlife. It makes much more sense that a god who hides from us would be much more open and fair in the afterlife and would offer us a pretty decent bargain. So the odds are in favor of my getting the best of both worlds: I get to follow my own path in this one, and I get to follow my own path in the afterlife. But you run a much higher risk of spending eternity wishing you hadn't wasted your time chasing metaphysical bunnies down spiritual rabbit holes.

I'll still invite you over for tea and card games, though!

(February 21, 2015 at 10:11 am)Tonus Wrote:

(February 21, 2015 at 10:02 am)Riketto Wrote: The problem is if there is more than one life.

Ahh, Pascal's Wager: the idea that I should waste my life chasing "things" I cannot experience until after I die, on the highly-improbable chance that I selected the right "thing."

Frankly, it seems to me that the person who follows one particular god or religion or spiritual path might be taking the bigger gamble. After all, it's only a relatively small set of gods that will punish you in the afterlife. It makes much more sense that a god who hides from us would be much more open and fair in the afterlife and would offer us a pretty decent bargain. So the odds are in favor of my getting the best of both worlds: I get to follow my own path in this one, and I get to follow my own path in the afterlife. But you run a much higher risk of spending eternity wishing you hadn't wasted your time chasing metaphysical bunnies down spiritual rabbit holes.
I'll still invite you over for tea and card games, though!

You presume that an hypothetical God hide from us.
Suppose that the reality is that he is not hiding at all but he doesn't show up (so to speak) until you are not interested in him.
Why would show up to someone who doesn't care to know him?
You never thought this way, did you Ton?