I think its fantastic. Its about time!

If theists can advertise I don't see why atheists shouldn't be able to. Its about time
Evf

Hmmm, I seem to be in a minority of 1 on this ,so I'll expand a bit on my original post.
On one level, if the intention is to make atheists feel good, seeing atheism advertised like faith is, then fine, it delivers.
However, if the intention is more substantial, then what are the posible results?
The advert might create more atheists? It might, but I doubt it.
Will it win over borderline atheists? Again' I doubt it, one reason being that god squad will react ( it is already happening ) and in the pages of the popular press, prominent faith-heads will ridicule and probably misrepresent the message. The outcome may well be the opposite of what we want. Make no mistake, the establishment will pull out all the stops to discredit Dawkins. A perfect example is them using England's most prominent leftie, Tony Benn, to use his considerable debating skills ( supported by hostile interviewers ) to ensure Dawkins came off second best in the recent tv debate.
Another possibility, and I believe the most likely, is that the effect will be neutral. I say this from just talking locally to people who don't usually talk about the subject.

So, sorry if this comes over as being negative, but it's what I think.

(January 15, 2009 at 1:19 pm)bozo Wrote: Another possibility, and I believe the most likely, is that the effect will be neutral. I say this from just talking locally to people who don't usually talk about the subject.

So, sorry if this comes over as being negative, but it's what I think.

In a way the fact that people don't normally talk about it and now they are is the point of the campaign i.e. It's raising awareness. Which is rather good I should think.

Regards

Sam

One problem with atheism is that it's a minority that is easily bashed and looked over because we don't have a voice. These bus ads are creating a voice. The point is to be visible, to let people know they can't trample on our rights just because they think we are too small to do anything about it.

In America there is a seperation of church and state that is demolished every day we have "In god we trust" on our money, "under god" in our pledge and many other blatant violations. This has been allowed to be permitted because we weren't vocal enough. You can't do anything against the Jewish people without Anti-Defamation League striking against you. I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't like Jews, think they're going to hell, they should just shut up, they're annoying, they don't have standing in a 'Christian' nation (I'm not one of them) but you would never hear them say it without serious retribution. Whenever someone says "Judeo-Christian" they really mean Christian they're just giving a nod to the Jews. And the Jews have a much smaller demographic than the atheists, but they make sure they are represented and their rights aren't trampled on.

Atheists don't have that, we're easy fodder because we sit down and take it. The bus ads are just one of the many steps we need to take in being more visible, more vocal. It's not about getting people to like us, it's about getting people to realize they can't trample over our rights, that their notions of a "Christian" nation is false. The FFRF has been starting many lawsuits to challenge these notions in many ways, most recently the new Newdow lawsuit concerning the Inauguration. While I may not agree with some of their actions completely, I realize the sentiment behind it and I support that.

A year or two ago there was a CNN segment on "Why atheists are hated so much" and they didn't even have the courtesy to invite an atheist to the discussion. We need to let people know that shit doesn't fly, that we need to be brought to the discussion table and not have our rights and the constitution trampled on just because the majority of people believe some ancient guy rose from the dead to forgive sins.

While I agree the bus campaign isn't going to change everyone's mind, the goal is the media attention whether negative or positive. It makes atheism more visible. No, don't get me wrong, I 100% support promoting positive atheism. I think there's a worthy goal in trying to help people understand we're not some evil and immoral people, that we support you're right to believe we just don't agree. But when people are actively trying to demolish the scientific method, force schools to poison our mind with religion, make people feel unpatriotic unamerican because they don't show reverence to their god, take away a woman's right to choose, prevent the gay community from enjoying the same rights as the straight, then you know what? Sometimes you do have to get down and dirty and hurt peoples feelings. The fact that we even exist is an anathema to the religious. We stomp on their beliefs and say they are fairy tales, and we can try to say it in the nicest way possibly, we are still insulting to their entire belief system. We can't keep trying to dance around with kids gloves just because some people may be offended and take a negative view of us, that's going to happen no matter what!

I can see what this campaign is trying to achieve and I am not offended. However, as 'clever' as the slogan is there is something 'lacking' in the statement. I'm not sure how to convey what I mean, and maybe I can't because I'm not an atheist. Imagine someone who has a shit life, maybe they are starving or in a war-torn country surrounded by death and suffering and they have a hope that this is not all there is. How can they 'enjoy' themselves if their one shot at life was fucked through no choice of their own? A child who dies - how do you take its parents' hope that they will see their child again, away, in such a flippant way, it seems? This is an emotive response and I just felt I had to put forward these observations as I'm sure many people reading the slogan may feel despair rather than the liberation it is meant to encourage. I can see the counter-slogan posters appearing outside the churches, playing on the words and you may say playing on the fears of people.

(January 15, 2009 at 1:33 pm)Sam Wrote:

(January 15, 2009 at 1:19 pm)bozo Wrote: Another possibility, and I believe the most likely, is that the effect will be neutral. I say this from just talking locally to people who don't usually talk about the subject.

So, sorry if this comes over as being negative, but it's what I think.

In a way the fact that people don't normally talk about it and now they are is the point of the campaign i.e. It's raising awareness. Which is rather good I should think.

Regards

Sam

Sam, the people I spoke to only spoke about it because I raised it with them!
When someone raises it with me (positively ), that will be refreshing.

---

(January 15, 2009 at 2:12 pm)CoxRox Wrote: I can see what this campaign is trying to achieve and I am not offended. However, as 'clever' as the slogan is there is something 'lacking' in the statement. I'm not sure how to convey what I mean, and maybe I can't because I'm not an atheist. Imagine someone who has a shit life, maybe they are starving or in a war-torn country surrounded by death and suffering and they have a hope that this is not all there is. How can they 'enjoy' themselves if their one shot at life was fucked through no choice of their own? A child who dies - how do you take its parents' hope that they will see their child again, away, in such a flippant way, it seems? This is an emotive response and I just felt I had to put forward these observations as I'm sure many people reading the slogan may feel despair rather than the liberation it is meant to encourage. I can see the counter-slogan posters appearing outside the churches, playing on the words and you may say playing on the fears of people.

CR, I think I know what you mean and actually, I don't think it is a " clever " slogan.....because it is open to misinterpretation by faith correspondents in our papers.

---

(January 15, 2009 at 1:35 pm)Eilonnwy Wrote: One problem with atheism is that it's a minority that is easily bashed and looked over because we don't have a voice. These bus ads are creating a voice. The point is to be visible, to let people know they can't trample on our rights just because they think we are too small to do anything about it.

In America there is a seperation of church and state that is demolished every day we have "In god we trust" on our money, "under god" in our pledge and many other blatant violations. This has been allowed to be permitted because we weren't vocal enough. You can't do anything against the Jewish people without Anti-Defamation League striking against you. I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't like Jews, think they're going to hell, they should just shut up, they're annoying, they don't have standing in a 'Christian' nation (I'm not one of them) but you would never hear them say it without serious retribution. Whenever someone says "Judeo-Christian" they really mean Christian they're just giving a nod to the Jews. And the Jews have a much smaller demographic than the atheists, but they make sure they are represented and their rights aren't trampled on.

Atheists don't have that, we're easy fodder because we sit down and take it. The bus ads are just one of the many steps we need to take in being more visible, more vocal. It's not about getting people to like us, it's about getting people to realize they can't trample over our rights, that their notions of a "Christian" nation is false. The FFRF has been starting many lawsuits to challenge these notions in many ways, most recently the new Newdow lawsuit concerning the Inauguration. While I may not agree with some of their actions completely, I realize the sentiment behind it and I support that.

A year or two ago there was a CNN segment on "Why atheists are hated so much" and they didn't even have the courtesy to invite an atheist to the discussion. We need to let people know that shit doesn't fly, that we need to be brought to the discussion table and not have our rights and the constitution trampled on just because the majority of people believe some ancient guy rose from the dead to forgive sins.

While I agree the bus campaign isn't going to change everyone's mind, the goal is the media attention whether negative or positive. It makes atheism more visible. No, don't get me wrong, I 100% support promoting positive atheism. I think there's a worthy goal in trying to help people understand we're not some evil and immoral people, that we support you're right to believe we just don't agree. But when people are actively trying to demolish the scientific method, force schools to poison our mind with religion, make people feel unpatriotic unamerican because they don't show reverence to their god, take away a woman's right to choose, prevent the gay community from enjoying the same rights as the straight, then you know what? Sometimes you do have to get down and dirty and hurt peoples feelings. The fact that we even exist is an anathema to the religious. We stomp on their beliefs and say they are fairy tales, and we can try to say it in the nicest way possibly, we are still insulting to their entire belief system. We can't keep trying to dance around with kids gloves just because some people may be offended and take a negative view of us, that's going to happen no matter what!

E, I can only comment on how it might work in the uk. I expect it may well be different in your country. Whichever, I am concerned over what outcome will be generated.

Hi all
Just read this on the news http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories...-21047577/
It is a good job we don't get upset over theist signs
Regards
Rex.

(January 17, 2009 at 4:57 pm)peregrine Wrote: Hi all
Just read this on the news http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories...-21047577/
It is a good job we don't get upset over theist signs
Regards
Rex.

Well I make a point of NEVER going into a church that has god posters outside of it.

They should can that guy's ass. His job is to drive a bus, not be a spokesman.

Bus driver Wrote:There'd be no way buses would be able to drive around with an anti-Muslim message like that on the side. There would be uproar.

No God = No Allah... or am I missing something?