(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It's not a child's fault that he is born with a genetic defect, but he will suffer the symptoms all the same, the "cure" is what it is, no way around it.

Not an apt analogy, but then, when do we ever get anything remotely accurate from you?

Sin, in your analogy, is not a birth defect with any symptoms or signs of its existence at all. The symptoms are inflicted, by conscious choice, by your god. Your god created hell, it is by his will that people go there, and he has the power, but not the inclination, to prevent people going there.

A more apt analogy is that it's not a child's fault that he's born to an abusive father, but he will suffer the abuse all the same, the way to make it stop is what it is, no way around it. He just needs to bend and scrape before daddy, and he won't have to suffer anymore.

Nice try, attempting to mask your victim blaming, though.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:03 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It's not a child's fault that he is born with a genetic defect, but he will suffer the symptoms all the same, the "cure" is what it is, no way around it.

Not an apt analogy, but then, when do we ever get anything remotely accurate from you?

Sin, in your analogy, is not a birth defect with any symptoms or signs of its existence at all. The symptoms are inflicted, by conscious choice, by your god. Your god created hell, it is by his will that people go there, and he has the power, but not the inclination, to prevent people going there.

A more apt analogy is that it's not a child's fault that he's born to an abusive father, but he will suffer the abuse all the same, the way to make it stop is what it is, no way around it. He just needs to bend and scrape before daddy, and he won't have to suffer anymore.

Nice try, attempting to mask your victim blaming, though.

Wrong, hell was not created for humans, the Bible states clearly that hell was created for the "devil and his angels" and also that "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance"
If you don't want to go to hell, repent, it's that simple. You have to literally fight your way into hell.

If you refuse to take medicine for an illness, who fault is it when you die?

(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 21, 2015 at 10:52 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: No, dumbass. Something dying (except not really, because that "something" is allegedly immortal, rendering the gesture worthless and the whole thing a charade, like paying a debt with "Monopoly" money),

I think someone needs to look up the definition of "immortal".

(March 21, 2015 at 10:52 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: so that you're free from responsibility for events you've had no part in, because they happened thousands of years before you were born. That's what we're talking about here. Pay attention...

You're right you had no part in the initial event, but it still affects you, unless you claim never to have sinned.
(by the way, you pay debts with monopoly money (fiat currency) every day...)

It's not a child's fault that he is born with a genetic defect, but he will suffer the symptoms all the same, the "cure" is what it is, no way around it.

Well, I see you're pushing sin as disease so you can sell your snake oil. Piss off Huggies.

(March 21, 2015 at 10:40 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Something dying in order for you to live.

Yes, a nonsensical concept which you utilize everyday...

The analogy only works if we're barbecuing Jesus ... so pass the ketchup and shut the fuck up.

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(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I think someone needs to look up the definition of "immortal".

Indeed. Kinda makes that whole "dying for our sins" thing pointless.

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(March 22, 2015 at 1:15 am)Huggy74 Wrote: If you refuse to take medicine for an illness, who fault is it when you die?

In this case, it looks like your god's fault, given that he was incapable of making humans strong enough to resist the temptation that he himself created in the form of the devil.

It's as if a doctor injected you with tuberculosis bacillus, and then demands that you worship him for his kindness before he gives you your hypothetical cure.

Sounds like a right cunt, to me.

(March 21, 2015 at 10:19 pm)urlawyer Wrote:

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Hey fellow human peoples, so I need a little help here. I'm trying to form a relatively air tight stance on the illogical inconsistencies of the new testament in the event that all hell breaks loose and I find myself arguing against a christian who somehow circumvents the ridiculousness of the old testament and is able to stand on the new testament by itself.
Now I know there is a plethora of factual contradictions in the first four books themselves which you'd think would be enough, but I need something more than a basic fact check to debate this. I need a philosophical/theological/moral point to make like you can do so easily with the old testament.

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Does anyone know if Jesus ate babies, for instance, or liked The Last Airbender movie?

I think the baby eating Jesus works.
http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

Quote: After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died.

Or at least the baby killing Jesus.

From there you can get into all sorts of fun with the reliability of the early NT writings, the suppression of alternate gospels, the politics of fourth century Rome (and Constantinople). It is a real gospel....no it's not a real gospel...but it was written on papyrus...we have no original autographs...
Its a bullshit fest and jobs program that has lasted 2000 years and provided sustenance for untold thousands of clerics. Have fun.

(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I think someone needs to look up the definition of "immortal".

Unsurprisingly - you think wrong. According to christian doctrine - we are all immortal. The only difference between us - regular souls - and Jeesus - an incarnation of God - is that he "knew" he was going to a "better place", whereas we can only believe it on the basis of some very dubious "evidence" presented by morally and intellectually bankrupt people and institutions. If god told me himself that I was going to heaven to rule over all humanity - you could crucify me every week until the end of days.

(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: You're right you had no part in the initial event, but it still affects you, unless you claim never to have sinned.

OK, fine - I have NEVER sinned.

(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (by the way, you pay debts with monopoly money (fiat currency) every day...)

Ugh... God, you're dumb. There is a substantial difference between "fiat money" and "toy money". If you don't believe me - try paying for your groceries (or drugs, or hookers) with "Monopoly" money.

(March 21, 2015 at 11:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It's not a child's fault that he is born with a genetic defect, but he will suffer the symptoms all the same, the "cure" is what it is, no way around it.

Oh, really? So who do we get to torture and kill... I mean - sacrifice, in order to cure genetic diseases?
Genetic diseases are real and have observable symptoms and as such - can't be cured by barbaric nonsense. The whole concept of sin is completely un-testable and most likely made up by clever people in order to control dumb people, just like the rest of religious doctrines.

When you live in Make-Believe-Land you can claim anything as a "cure" for any imaginary illness. That doesn't make it right, or true. Only convenient.

Quote:Wrong, hell was not created for humans, the Bible states clearly that hell was created for the "devil and his angels"

The bible says lots of shit. Only assholes like you believe it.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Unsurprisingly - you think wrong. According to christian doctrine - we are all immortal. The only difference between us - regular souls - and Jeesus - an incarnation of God - is that he "knew" he was going to a "better place", whereas we can only believe it on the basis of some very dubious "evidence" presented by morally and intellectually bankrupt people and institutions. If god told me himself that I was going to heaven to rule over all humanity - you could crucify me every week until the end of days.

No, we are not immortal, too many dead Christians to believe that doctrine. We believe that death is a transition from one place to another. we are given immortality at the resurrection, where our bodies are changed into theophanies.

Jesus died a sinner (all the worlds sin that would ever be committed was placed on him), he spent the 3 days of his death in hell.
He was still human he didn't want to die.
Who want's to be beaten to a bloody pulp and then crucified (probably the worst death ever devised)? He was so stressed out he started sweating blood.
Jesus had to have faith just like the rest of us, and he went to his death believing in just one scripture.

Quote:For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (decay). - Psalm 16:10

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: OK, fine - I have NEVER sinned.

So you never lied?... wait, you just did.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Ugh... God, you're dumb. There is a substantial difference between "fiat money" and "toy money". If you don't believe me - try paying for your groceries (or drugs, or hookers) with "Monopoly" money.

Please explain what, exactly, makes a real dollar bill inherently more "valuable" than a monopoly dollar bill...

The actual value of a dollar bill is less than 6 cents.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Oh, really? So who do we get to torture and kill... I mean - sacrifice, in order to cure genetic diseases?

Really?



Scientific progress is built off of the sacrifice of humans and animals.

People don't realize that we collected and use a lot of data from the Nazis and the experiments they conducted in the concentration camps.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Genetic diseases are real and have observable symptoms and as such - can't be cured by barbaric nonsense.

What about Black men being injected with syphilis in Tuskegee.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_sy...experiment

Quote:The Tuskegee syphilis experiment (/tʌsˈkiːɡiː/)[1] was an infamous clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the U.S. Public Health Service to study the natural progression of untreated syphilis in rural African-American men in Alabama.

You were saying?

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: The whole concept of sin is completely un-testable and most likely made up by clever people in order to control dumb people, just like the rest of religious doctrines.

No, it's testable, you just don't get to come back and announce the results of the test.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: When you live in Make-Believe-Land you can claim anything as a "cure" for any imaginary illness. That doesn't make it right, or true. Only convenient.

All I can say is that one day we will all be certain of the truth..

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(March 22, 2015 at 2:24 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Wrong, hell was not created for humans, the Bible states clearly that hell was created for the "devil and his angels"

The bible says lots of shit. Only assholes like you believe it.

Hey minimalist, I have a hypothetical question for you, just want to see what you think about this scenario.

Say you died and found out heaven and hell were in fact real, and God says to you, "I know you didn't believe on earth, but I'm willing to forgive and let you into heaven if you just repent, refuse to repent and you go to hell.

Do you repent?

(March 21, 2015 at 10:40 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Something dying in order for you to live.

Yes, a nonsensical concept which you utilize everyday...

Jesus died so my parents could fuck? Learn something new everyday.

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(March 22, 2015 at 7:05 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Ugh... God, you're dumb. There is a substantial difference between "fiat money" and "toy money". If you don't believe me - try paying for your groceries (or drugs, or hookers) with "Monopoly" money.

Please explain what, exactly, makes a real dollar bill inherently more "valuable" than a monopoly dollar bill...

He just did!!!! What a fucking annoying shit for brains.

(March 22, 2015 at 1:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: The actual value of a dollar bill is less than 6 cents.

Put your money where your mouth is. If you truly believe this then you'll have no problem accepting my offer. I will give you a dime for every dollar you have.

(March 21, 2015 at 10:19 pm)urlawyer Wrote: Hey fellow human peoples, so I need a little help here. I'm trying to form a relatively air tight stance on the illogical inconsistencies of the new testament in the event that all hell breaks loose and I find myself arguing against a christian who somehow circumvents the ridiculousness of the old testament and is able to stand on the new testament by itself.
Now I know there is a plethora of factual contradictions in the first four books themselves which you'd think would be enough, but I need something more than a basic fact check to debate this. I need a philosophical/theological/moral point to make like you can do so easily with the old testament.
Does anyone know if Jesus ate babies, for instance, or liked The Last Airbender movie?

The two most important stories, birth and death, are by themselves scientifically absurd claims. If he had been claimed to have eaten babies that would be more realistic because babies do exist, virgin births and zombie gods do not.

But outside that while the contradictions while fun, the totality of the entire bible from a moral context is frightening.

You have this claimed god who is immovable, whom you didn't vote into his position, whom cannot be voted out of his position, whom you cannot impeach, and while may take kindly to some who follow him, still does not need your consent to rule over you. I like to summarize the plot in 3 parts.

1. I beat you for your own good.

2. I'm sorry I beat you, I won't do that again.

3. Screw it, I'll beat you if I want, burn everything, take my minions and destroy everyone else who didn't kiss my ass.

Good thing in reality is such a monster does not exist. Bad thing is people think he is real and are willing to kill for this horrible fictional character.