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Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
#1
Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
Hello,

I am a devout Catholic with an interest in philosophy. I am posting here in an attempt to find good articles/books/blogs that challenge my personal views. I personally see Thomism, especially as put forward by philosophers like Edward Feser, as the best method of rationally establishing Theism. However, I would like to challenge my personal views and see what others think. Do any of you know of any good replies to the traditional arguments for the existence of God? Especially as argued by Edward Feser in his books and posts such as this (http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2013/05/...gency.html) ?

Thank you for your time.
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#2
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
Well, I would start out noting that the Aristotelian notion of necessary versus possible existence is incredibly problematic. It is best to leave Aristotle alone if you want to do philosophy.

But then, I would say the same about Thomas. His arguments are well-known to be weak and do not prove what he sets out to prove.

Do you have specific arguments that you would like critiqued? First cause? Design? Ontological?

And, if you ever actually read Aquinas, I suspect you will quickly fall out of love with him. Once again, his whole world view was based in Aristotle. but we *know* Aristotle's mechanics to be wrong (and horribly so).
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#3
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
More elaboration on the problems with Aquinas' Aristotelianism would be appreciated. What in particular do you find problematic with Aristotle? Do you know any books/articles/ etc. that develop the point more in-depth? 

Argumentwise, I guess a good reply to arguments from change or contingency would be preferable.
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#4
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
(January 19, 2018 at 6:39 pm)FireFromHeaven Wrote: Hello,

I am a devout Catholic with an interest in philosophy. I am posting here in an attempt to find good articles/books/blogs that challenge my personal views. I personally see Thomism, especially as put forward by philosophers like Edward Feser, as the best method of rationally establishing Theism. However, I would like to challenge my personal views and see what others think. Do any of you know of any good replies to the traditional arguments for the existence of God? Especially as argued by Edward Feser in his books and posts such as this (http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2013/05/...gency.html) ?

Thank you for your time.

Hey, welcome aboard.  Is there some specific aspect of thomist theology, or some specific "traditional" argument for god that you think is the strongest case, that you're looking to challenge?  I hope you won't be offended, but I wont be clicking your link or trying to address any unspecificied content from a third party.

It's not you, it's all the other weirdos we get. I'm sure you'll understand...and welcome aboard again, lol. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#5
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
Thomas Who?
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#6
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
No problem. I can imagine from my own participation in a Catholic forum. I personally think that the idea of Act and Potency presented by Aristotle makes the existence of God necessary for change to occur.

(January 19, 2018 at 6:53 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Thomas Who?

Thomas Aquinas, though I would also be interested in refutations of the theories presented by modern Thomists such as Feser.
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#7
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
Ah, right..so act and potency as relayed by aristotle.  I think it's totally legit.

Hail Zeus, yes? Are you current on your temple tax to the oracle at delphi?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#8
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
Welcome!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#9
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
Thomas Jefferson might have been interesting.  Thomas Paine would definitely have been interesting.

Aquinas is just another medieval clown who thinks "god" is the answer to everything.

Nice meeting you.
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#10
RE: Arguments Against Thomistic philosophy
(January 19, 2018 at 6:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Thomas Jefferson might have been interesting.  Thomas Paine would definitely have been interesting.

Aquinas is just another medieval clown who thinks "god" is the answer to everything.

Nice meeting you.

K.

(January 19, 2018 at 6:58 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Ah, right..so act and potency as relayed by aristotle.  I think it's totally legit.

Hail Zeus, yes?  Are you current on your temple tax to the oracle at delphi?

I don't think Zeus is a good fit for the First Cause that the idea of act and potency would entail. Do you or some other atheist have a good argument for how the First Cause (or Prime Mover) could be something other than God.
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