(March 22, 2015 at 12:42 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(March 22, 2015 at 8:08 am)Riketto Wrote: Where is the physical prove that the mind exist?
We know that it exist but how can we touch it, smell it, see it and so on?
So according your demented idea nothing that is not physical can exist because our senses can not grasp hold of them.
You see how demented you are?

Shifting of the burden of proof and argument from ignorance. Your lack of understanding of the physical world is not evidence for a spiritual world.

Wait a minute sur.
You are totally changing the subject.
You said that the mind is NOT abstract.
I sort of asked you.......well if it is not abstract than we can touch, smell, see it and so on.
Instead of admitting your failure you keep on coming up with your usual rosary about the burden of proof.
What burden of proof?
You are the one who declare that the mind is not abstract not me so eventually it is you that got to come up with evidence.
But let me go a bit further.
The reason why i was asking you about whether the mind is abstract or not was because as you can not get grasp of the mind in a physical way you also could not get grasp of anything else that is not physical in a physical way including an hypothetical God.
Unfortunately you (as usual ) got lost with your (NOT ) abstract mind.

Quote:You're not choosing the good and cutting the bad. You're choosing with what you agree with and ignoring what you don't. It's called dishonesty, a pigeon tactic.

If you really think so you should show me something that i choose that doesn't make sense.
Again and again when i do ask you to show me any of my failing you fail to come up with anything.
Nothing new son.

Quote:Not at all sur.
If you would have said..........I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE NDEs AS ACCORDING TO ME THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE TRUE instead of saying.......THE NDEs ARE NOT REAL OR THEY ARE BULLSHIT.
There is a lot of differences in these two statement.

Quote:There is only one reason you care about, does it agree to with your already concluded reality or not.

Sur. I am, pointing out your failing.
The more you evade my point by changing arguments and coming up with your usual rosary about the burden of proof you just keep on sinking in the quick sands more and more.
The only way out the mental mess in which you are is to admit your failing and change attitude. Nothing else will do.

Quote:So in the first case you may well say that the burden of prove is on me but in the next statement you DECLARE something and a declaration always require evidence.

Quote:You mean how I point out that testimonials are not evidence and give the UFO's as an example. So the testimonials coming from NDE's, magic crystals, or UFOs are all the same, they are NOT EVIDENCE.

Wrong again sur.
It is by selecting the good that got some value and rejecting the bad that we can advance in our progress.
You can well please yourself and carry on the way you like.
That's your life after all.

Quote:I never declare that NDEs are real.
I always said that i believe that NDEs are real and that make a big big difference.

Quote:So stop referring to NDE's when I ask for evidence. Where is your evidence?

The reason why i say........I BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE REAL instead of saying THEY ARE REAL is because materialistic people pretend physical evidence about something that is not physical.
Even if evidence is there it wouldn't make any sense to anyone which outlook is only materialistic-physical.
As far as you keep on pretending physical evidence of something that is not physical than the clash will always be there.
Above i just show you how stupid is to pretend physical evidence of an abstract entity like the mind.
NDEs follow the same pattern.
And so God.

Quote:And like the religious people you despise, you don't show any evidence for your belief. So I reply that your belief is unjustified.

Just answered above.

Quote:You admit that computers cannot exist without microprocessors. Your only objection is that tools (computers are tools) are used by someone. Well duh. However, you still cannot build a tool from the top-down, you cannot build a house from the top-down. What can you build from the top down? Where is your evidence for it.

Changing argument again.
What this has got to do with what we were talking about only Santa knows.
Typical of someone who can not admit his failing.

Quote:So you know for sure that analogies are only related to theories and not to practice?

Quote:Actually, neither

Actually both.

Quote:Silly again sur.
Analogies are comparisons.
You take two similar things in order to see how they compare one another.

Quote:Silly pigeon, your missing the imitation part which is very important.

Imitation comparisons and improvement are all part and parcel of coming up with something better.

Quote:Silly 3 times now.
You are just declaring that in the past they were practicing intuitional science.
Sorry pal but your declaration need EVIDENCE.
Without evidence your statement is the usual pile o'crap.

Quote:They definitely weren't practicing physical science. How would you know that they didn't practice intuitional science? Because they didn't come to the same conclusions as you? Please, elaborate on more on your dishonesty.

You allege that i did say that they were not practicing intuitional practices.
I never said that.
I said to you.........how do you know that they were practicing intuitional science?
They may they may not.
We do not know that is why i suggest you to stop speculating whether they did or did not.

Quote:Dictionaries are like cars or any other physical-material-mental thing.

Quote:No they are not like cars. They tell people the meaning of words society has agreed upon. If you want to communicate within society, you have to use the words correctly. Otherwise, you only sound like an idiot.

Fool.
Also a car or a computer tell us that this is the new technology.
Until an expert or an inventor come up with something new and more advanced we are left with this technology with this knowledge.
As the technologies and the discover change also the dictionaries are bound to change in order to keep up with the change so there can not be any differences between one another.
They are all in the same boat in the same flow.

Quote:All this bullshit of yours does not answer the question.
I did ask you in which way you expect the burden of prove about something abstract.
In a physical way?
In a abstract way or in which way?

Quote:The burden of proof is always on the person making a claim. You make lots of claims and provide terrible if any justification for them. Plus, your follow up questions don't make any sense. Most likely, you assumed something thinking I assumed the same thing.

Aren't you sick to recite the same rosary about the burden of proof and answer the question instead.
HOW DO YOU WANT YOUR BURDEN OF PROOF?
Physically, mentally or which other way?

Quote:It was all about real reality.
According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain but the guys in the festival that i shown do not feel pain when they insert any metal in their flesh so this according to me means that this universe is not the real reality.

Quote:I already gave two examples where this statement of your is false. Please stop repeating it. You're becoming boring.

False statement?
What is false?
It sound like the usual way to avoid answering my questions?

(March 23, 2015 at 10:41 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 22, 2015 at 12:42 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Shifting of the burden of proof and argument from ignorance. Your lack of understanding of the physical world is not evidence for a spiritual world.

Wait a minute sur.
You are totally changing the subject.

I'm going back to the original topic. The abstract vs physical conversation is happening lower in the post.

Quote:

Quote:You're not choosing the good and cutting the bad. You're choosing with what you agree with and ignoring what you don't. It's called dishonesty, a pigeon tactic.

If you really think so you should show me something that i choose that doesn't make sense.

It "doesn't make sense" because it doesn't agree with your conclusion. That is where your dishonest lies.

Quote:

Quote:You mean how I point out that testimonials are not evidence and give the UFO's as an example. So the testimonials coming from NDE's, magic crystals, or UFOs are all the same, they are NOT EVIDENCE.

Wrong again sur
It is by selecting the good that got some value and rejecting the bad that we can advance in our progress.
You can well please yourself and carry on the way you like.
That's your life after all.

As stated above, your 'good' is what agrees with you, and your 'bad' is what doesn't agree with you; even though, the 'evidence' is of the same flavor, testimonials. Dishonesty at its finest.

Quote:

Quote:I never declare that NDEs are real.
I always said that i believe that NDEs are real and that make a big big difference.

Quote:So stop referring to NDE's when I ask for evidence. Where is your evidence?

The reason why i say........I BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE REAL instead of saying THEY ARE REAL is because materialistic people pretend physical evidence about something that is not physical.

You believe them to be real because YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND how the physical world can explain it. It is the definition of ignorance. Your lack of understanding is not evidence for something else.

Quote:

Quote:And like the religious people you despise, you don't show any evidence for your belief. So I reply that your belief is unjustified.

Just answered above.

Adding another claim to explain hide your ignorance is not an explanation. Where is your evidence that the physical world cannot explain non-physical objects? Did you consider the non-physical objects are just an abstraction of the physical objects, i.e. the physical objects create the abstract objects? No? ... But you think abstract objects can cause physical objects, why?

Quote:

Quote:You admit that computers cannot exist without microprocessors. Your only objection is that tools (computers are tools) are used by someone. Well duh. However, you still cannot build a tool from the top-down, you cannot build a house from the top-down. What can you build from the top down? Where is your evidence for it.

Changing argument again.
What this has got to do with what we were talking about only Santa knows.
Typical of someone who can not admit his failing.

Is this your new strategy, claim I change the argument without realizing that I'm trying to maintain the original argument. Please, try to follow.

Quote:

Quote:So you know for sure that analogies are only related to theories and not to practice?

Quote:Actually, neither

Actually both.

The dictionary is your friend. You should use it more often.

Quote:

Quote:Silly again sur.
Analogies are comparisons.
You take two similar things in order to see how they compare one another.

Quote:Silly pigeon, your missing the imitation part which is very important.

Imitation comparisons and improvement are all part and parcel of coming up with something better.

And that doesn't make them analogies but models, pigeon.

Quote:

Quote:Silly 3 times now.
You are just declaring that in the past they were practicing intuitional science.
Sorry pal but your declaration need EVIDENCE.
Without evidence your statement is the usual pile o'crap.

Quote:They definitely weren't practicing physical science. How would you know that they didn't practice intuitional science? Because they didn't come to the same conclusions as you? Please, elaborate on more on your dishonesty.

You allege that i did say that they were not practicing intuitional practices.
I never said that.
I said to you.........how do you know that they were practicing intuitional science?
They may they may not.
We do not know that is why i suggest you to stop speculating whether they did or did not.

Congratulations, you started to understand one more thing, "you cannot claim something happen because something else didn't happen." Now lets try to apply this concept to your bullshitalogy. If you don't know how the physical world can do something, that doesn't mean a spiritual world is needed. If someone says they don't fell pain when they stick sharp objects in their mouths, that doesn't mean consciousness is outside the brain. etc...

Quote:

Quote:Dictionaries are like cars or any other physical-material-mental thing.

Quote:No they are not like cars. They tell people the meaning of words society has agreed upon. If you want to communicate within society, you have to use the words correctly. Otherwise, you only sound like an idiot.

Fool.

Back at you.

Quote:

Quote:All this bullshit of yours does not answer the question.
I did ask you in which way you expect the burden of prove about something abstract.
In a physical way?
In a abstract way or in which way?

Quote:The burden of proof is always on the person making a claim. You make lots of claims and provide terrible if any justification for them. Plus, your follow up questions don't make any sense. Most likely, you assumed something thinking I assumed the same thing.

Aren't you sick to recite the same rosary about the burden of proof and answer the question instead.

Yes, I'm almost sick of always addressing your lack of understanding basic logic.

Quote:

Quote:I already gave two examples where this statement of your is false. Please stop repeating it. You're becoming boring.

False statement?
What is false?
It sound like the usual way to avoid answering my questions?

Your false statement, "According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain."
It is false because it doesn't account for the possibility of dead nerve endings or the people are just ignoring the pain. You'll be a moron to claim you cannot kill nerve endings, but I wouldn't be surprise if you do. You'll be a moron to claim people cannot ignore pain because I ignored headaches, knee scrapes, back aches, etc... So your argument is invalid because it ignores there obvious explanations.

(March 23, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

Quote:If you really think so you should show me something that i choose that doesn't make sense.

It "doesn't make sense" because it doesn't agree with your conclusion. That is where your dishonest lies.

Instead of answering my question you keep on coming up with the same rosary of avoiding to answer the question.
Show me instead where any of mine writing doesn't agree with my conclusion.

Quote:As stated above, your 'good' is what agrees with you, and your 'bad' is what doesn't agree with you; even though, the 'evidence' is of the same flavor, testimonials. Dishonesty at its finest.

As stated above.
No examples given even in this case.

Quote:The reason why i say........I BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE REAL instead of saying THEY ARE REAL is because materialistic people pretend physical evidence about something that is not physical.

Quote:You believe them to be real because YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND how the physical world can explain it. It is the definition of ignorance. Your lack of understanding is not evidence for something else.

Garbage.
Nothing to do with understanding or not.
The physical world according to yoga is a metamorphosis of something more complex and big so it is natural that the small which has been created by the big can not possibly understand the big.
It would be like your baby trying to understand what goes on in your mind.

Quote:Adding another claim to explain hide your ignorance is not an explanation. Where is your evidence that the physical world cannot explain non-physical objects? Did you consider the non-physical objects are just an abstraction of the physical objects, i.e. the physical objects create the abstract objects? No? ... But you think abstract objects can cause physical objects, why?

Just explained above.

Quote:Is this your new strategy, claim I change the argument without realizing that I'm trying to maintain the original argument. Please, try to follow.

A perfect excuse for not answering my questions.

Quote:The dictionary is your friend. You should use it more often.

Let us take the word cancer that in Latin means crab.
According to some dictionaries it was given this name to this disease because as the dictionary say.................. these words refer to a crab, most likely applied to the disease because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab...............
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasic...-is-cancer

Sarkar instead said that the reason why they gave the name crab or cancer to this disease is because in the old times when somebody had a terminal cancer they would feel similar pain as when a crab bait and eat your flesh considering that in the old time they did not have powerful painkillers as the morphine.
You see surgen how the explanation can be so different one another.
I rather believe Sarkar rather than a dictionary.

Quote:Imitation comparisons and improvement are all part and parcel of coming up with something better.

Quote:And that doesn't make them analogies but models, pigeon.

You start with analogies and comparison and what follow can be improvement so who is the pigeon?

Quote:You allege that i did say that they were not practicing intuitional practices.
I never said that.
I said to you.........how do you know that they were practicing intuitional science?
They may they may not.
We do not know that is why i suggest you to stop speculating whether they did or did not.

Quote:Congratulations, you started to understand one more thing, "you cannot claim something happen because something else didn't happen." Now lets try to apply this concept to your bullshitalogy. If you don't know how the physical world can do something, that doesn't mean a spiritual world is needed. If someone says they don't fell pain when they stick sharp objects in their mouths, that doesn't mean consciousness is outside the brain. etc...

I already answer well above.
The physical world is like your baby compared to you.
It can not possibly understand what's on in your mind.
Metamorphosis can happen for achieving more consciousness or loose the consciousness that you already got.
In this case the universe is a metamorphosis in which (according to yoga) God loose his supreme consciousness into something less and less conscious like space, air, light, water and matter in which God consciousness is in a latent or dormant stage.

Quote:Aren't you sick to recite the same rosary about the burden of proof and answer the question instead.

Quote:Yes, I'm almost sick of always addressing your lack of understanding basic logic.

Since when you address anything at all?
All you do is not answering the question or coming up with your usual rosary about the burden of proof.

Quote:Your false statement, "According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain."
It is false because it doesn't account for the possibility of dead nerve endings or the people are just ignoring the pain. You'll be a moron to claim you cannot kill nerve endings, but I wouldn't be surprise if you do. You'll be a moron to claim people cannot ignore pain because I ignored headaches, knee scrapes, back aches, etc... So your argument is invalid because it ignores there obvious explanations.

So you reckon that all these guys who insert knives into their flesh had dead nerves.
Interesting sur how so many people in that festival had the same symptoms.
So how do explain that few days before this festival their nerves were fully alive?

(March 24, 2015 at 10:17 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 23, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Surgenator Wrote: It "doesn't make sense" because it doesn't agree with your conclusion. That is where your dishonest lies.

Instead of answering my question you keep on coming up with the same rosary of avoiding to answer the question.
Show me instead where any of mine writing doesn't agree with my conclusion.

Your reading comprehension also needs some work. I never stated that your dishonest statements don't support your delusions. I said you're dishonestly avoiding other statements because they don't fit your delusions.

Quote:

Quote:You believe them to be real because YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND how the physical world can explain it. It is the definition of ignorance. Your lack of understanding is not evidence for something else.

Garbage.
Nothing to do with understanding or not.
The physical world according to yoga is a metamorphosis of something more complex and big so it is natural that the small which has been created by the big can not possibly understand the big.
It would be like your baby trying to understand what goes on in your mind.

(bold mine) So you believe the physical world cannot understand it because you yoga says it. Can you spell circular reasoning, another logical fallacy.

Quote:

Quote:Adding another claim to explain hide your ignorance is not an explanation. Where is your evidence that the physical world cannot explain non-physical objects? Did you consider the non-physical objects are just an abstraction of the physical objects, i.e. the physical objects create the abstract objects? No? ... But you think abstract objects can cause physical objects, why?

Just explained above.

Yes, you showed how you cannot use basic logic.

Quote:

Quote:The dictionary is your friend. You should use it more often.

Let us take the word cancer that in Latin means crab.
According to some dictionaries it was given this name to this disease because as the dictionary say.................. these words refer to a crab, most likely applied to the disease because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab...............
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasic...-is-cancer

Definitions change over time. You still have to use the definitions of words to commute properly, not make up some other meaning for them. Or do you prefer to not communicate your ideas?

Quote:I rather believe Sarkar rather than a dictionary.

That is why you are deluded. Unlike Sarkar, the dictionary has no agenda. Its only job is to show what are the current meaning of words are.

Quote:

Quote:And that doesn't make them analogies but models, pigeon.

You start with analogies and comparison and what follow can be improvement so who is the pigeon?

No, you start of with models, and compare the models, evolve the model to make it more accurate, and then build your contraption.

Quote:

Quote:Congratulations, you started to understand one more thing, "you cannot claim something happen because something else didn't happen." Now lets try to apply this concept to your bullshitalogy. If you don't know how the physical world can do something, that doesn't mean a spiritual world is needed. If someone says they don't fell pain when they stick sharp objects in their mouths, that doesn't mean consciousness is outside the brain. etc...

I already answer well above.
The physical world is like your baby compared to you.
It can not possibly understand what's on in your mind.
Metamorphosis can happen for achieving more consciousness or loose the consciousness that you already got.
In this case the universe is a metamorphosis in which (according to yoga) God loose his supreme consciousness into something less and less conscious like space, air, light, water and matter in which God consciousness is in a latent or dormant stage.

Your "answers" are riddled with fallacies. Any simple analysis of them shows how easily they crumble. Yet, you restate the same logically flawed statements thinking this time they will not have so many flaws.

Quote:

Quote:Yes, I'm almost sick of always addressing your lack of understanding basic logic.

Since when you address anything at all?

Several times now. You only need to scroll back through the pages.

Quote:All you do is not answering the question or coming up with your usual rosary about the burden of proof.

Pointing out your flawed statements is part of the discussion. When you fix your logical errors, then I'll start answering your questions. Otherwise, I'm not interested on answering your when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife type questions.

Quote:

Quote:Your false statement, "According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain."
It is false because it doesn't account for the possibility of dead nerve endings or the people are just ignoring the pain. You'll be a moron to claim you cannot kill nerve endings, but I wouldn't be surprise if you do. You'll be a moron to claim people cannot ignore pain because I ignored headaches, knee scrapes, back aches, etc... So your argument is invalid because it ignores there obvious explanations.

So you reckon that all these guys who insert knives into their flesh had dead nerves.
Interesting sur how so many people in that festival had the same symptoms.
So how do explain that few days before this festival their nerves were fully alive?

Well pigeon, do you not understand that you have millions of nerve cells. So nerves cells that died in a local region, doesn't prevent them from growing back or getting killed again. When did I say ALL the nerve cells died?

(March 23, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Your false statement, "According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain."
It is false because it doesn't account for the possibility of dead nerve endings or the people are just ignoring the pain. You'll be a moron to claim you cannot kill nerve endings, but I wouldn't be surprise if you do. You'll be a moron to claim people cannot ignore pain because I ignored headaches, knee scrapes, back aches, etc... So your argument is invalid because it ignores there obvious explanations.

Indeed the phrase "tell that to Christopher Reeve" comes to mind

There are also people born without the ability to feel pain and then there is leprosy, Anaesthesia etc, etc.

(March 24, 2015 at 1:19 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(March 23, 2015 at 1:14 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Your false statement, "According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain."
It is false because it doesn't account for the possibility of dead nerve endings or the people are just ignoring the pain. You'll be a moron to claim you cannot kill nerve endings, but I wouldn't be surprise if you do. You'll be a moron to claim people cannot ignore pain because I ignored headaches, knee scrapes, back aches, etc... So your argument is invalid because it ignores there obvious explanations.

Indeed the phrase "tell that to Christopher Reeve" comes to mind

There are also people born without the ability to feel pain and then there is leprosy, Anaesthesia etc, etc.

If I bring up anaesthesia, I fear he'll go into a tangent about the evils/unnecessary-need of "western" medicine.

(March 24, 2015 at 1:12 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Your reading comprehension also needs some work. I never stated that your dishonest statements don't support your delusions. I said you're dishonestly avoiding other statements because they don't fit your delusions.

How would you know that?
What about i choose what does make sense and i reject what doesn't as i already said few times?
Why should i load the crap on my shoulder?
It is like when the gold searcher pick up the small nugget of gold from his pan and discard all the rest.
Is not that i find much gold in here but you never know.....maybe one day.

Quote:So you believe the physical world cannot understand it because you yoga says it. Can you spell circular reasoning, another logical fallacy.

Not at all sur.
I believe that the physical world can not understand the spiritual world because the spiritual world created the physical in the first place.
The mind control the body not the other way around.

Quote:Definitions change over time. You still have to use the definitions of words to commute properly, not make up some other meaning for them. Or do you prefer to not communicate your ideas?

I am glad that you say that..........Definitions change over time.
It is a big change compared to your old dogma that definitions are sort of true things because they come from a dictionary.
But again you are still stuck in the dogma when you say that we should not change them (if needed).

Quote:That is why you are deluded. Unlike Sarkar, the dictionary has no agenda. Its only job is to show what are the current meaning of words are.

Garbage.
Those who created or change the meaning of the words had an agenda.
Nothing is done for no reason.
The agenda may be for a good reasons like in Sarkar case or can be for a bad reason.

Quote:You start with analogies and comparison and what follow can be improvement so who is the pigeon?

Quote:No, you start of with models, and compare the models, evolve the model to make it more accurate, and then build your contraption.

I just can't believe this sur.
Your bla bla bla just agree with my above thought so what's the point in bla bla bla?

Quote:I already answer well above.
The physical world is like your baby compared to you.
It can not possibly understand what's on in your mind.
Metamorphosis can happen for achieving more consciousness or loose the consciousness that you already got.
In this case the universe is a metamorphosis in which (according to yoga) God loose his supreme consciousness into something less and less conscious like space, air, light, water and matter in which God consciousness is in a latent or dormant stage.

Quote:Your "answers" are riddled with fallacies. Any simple analysis of them shows how easily they crumble. Yet, you restate the same logically flawed statements thinking this time they will not have so many flaws.

Not at all sur.
If my statement is a fallacy than you should show that it is by telling me that the baby can understand what is inside his father mind.
You don't therefore is you that fail not me.

Quote:Since when you address anything at all?

Quote:Several times now. You only need to scroll back through the pages.

I scroll back i scroll again but i can not see anything that make sense among your posts.

Quote:Pointing out your flawed statements is part of the discussion. When you fix your logical errors, then I'll start answering your questions. Otherwise, I'm not interested on answering your when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife type questions.

Flawed statements?
Actually i usual say...........I BELIEVE IN THAT..........or i say...ACCORDING TO YOGA AND SO ON.
I never say.....this is true because i say so or this is true because Sarkar say so.
It is rather you that refuse to answer whether NDEs or God can be understood in a physical-mental way or in which other way.
But i am patient sur.
Maybe one day brother sur will decide to answer this question.

Quote:So you reckon that all these guys who insert knives into their flesh had dead nerves.
Interesting sur how so many people in that festival had the same symptoms.
So how do explain that few days before this festival their nerves were fully alive?

Quote:Well pigeon, do you not understand that you have millions of nerve cells. So nerves cells that died in a local region, doesn't prevent them from growing back or getting killed again. When did I say ALL the nerve cells died?

You are getting lost mate.
Let us stick to these guys.
Before and after this festival their nerves were normal.
Normal in the way that they were feeling pain if a knife is inserted into their flesh but during the festival it all change and they are immune of pain.
So how do you explain this sur?
This is food for thoughts sur so see if you can come up with something that make any sense.

---

(March 22, 2015 at 11:09 am)Stimbo Wrote: Rik - with a silent 'p' - please leave me out of your febrile fap fantasies.

I do present to you my deep deep apologies for even mentioning your name.
But let me express my feeling.
I HAD A DREAM.
I dream that maybe one day i may climb the ladder of mental evolution so i can become an administrator like you so i can ask the same question again and again even if the answer has already been given.
Now i am not allow to do that myself but i always dream that one day i may do that.
Sorry again for being a nuisance.

(March 25, 2015 at 2:09 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 24, 2015 at 1:12 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Your reading comprehension also needs some work. I never stated that your dishonest statements don't support your delusions. I said you're dishonestly avoiding other statements because they don't fit your delusions.

How would you know that?

From your own statements, or have you been lying all this time.

Quote:

Quote:So you believe the physical world cannot understand it because you yoga says it. Can you spell circular reasoning, another logical fallacy.

Not at all sur.
I believe that the physical world can not understand the spiritual world because the spiritual world created the physical in the first place.

You forgot to add "because yoga says so."

Quote:

Quote:Definitions change over time. You still have to use the definitions of words to commute properly, not make up some other meaning for them. Or do you prefer to not communicate your ideas?

I am glad that you say that..........Definitions change over time.
It is a big change compared to your old dogma that definitions are sort of true things because they come from a dictionary.
But again you are still stuck in the dogma when you say that we should not change them (if needed).

Your avoidance of using current or even older definitions shows you don't know how to communicate your ideas.

Quote:

Quote:That is why you are deluded. Unlike Sarkar, the dictionary has no agenda. Its only job is to show what are the current meaning of words are.

Garbage.
Those who created or change the meaning of the words had an agenda.

Society decides what the definitions are. The dictionary only writes them down. If you want to go against society, then there is a white padded room waiting for you.

Quote:

Quote:No, you start of with models, and compare the models, evolve the model to make it more accurate, and then build your contraption.

I just can't believe this sur.
Your bla bla bla just agree with my above thought so what's the point in bla bla bla?

Analogies are not models. A model is much more refined.

Quote:

Quote:Your "answers" are riddled with fallacies. Any simple analysis of them shows how easily they crumble. Yet, you restate the same logically flawed statements thinking this time they will not have so many flaws.

Not at all sur.
If my statement is a fallacy than you should show that it is by telling me that the baby can understand what is inside his father mind.
You don't therefore is you that fail not me.

Your rebuttal is even stupider. I don't agree with your inaccurate analogies, and definitely not the conclusions you reach from them.

Quote:

Quote:Several times now. You only need to scroll back through the pages.

I scroll back i scroll again but i can not see anything that make sense among your posts.

I can respond to your nonsense, but I can't fix your stupidity.

Quote:

Quote:Pointing out your flawed statements is part of the discussion. When you fix your logical errors, then I'll start answering your questions. Otherwise, I'm not interested on answering your when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife type questions.

Flawed statements?
Actually i usual say...........I BELIEVE IN THAT..........or i say...ACCORDING TO YOGA AND SO ON.

Which make as true as the pink-invisible-robot-hybrid-unicorn.

Quote:

Quote:So you reckon that all these guys who insert knives into their flesh had dead nerves.
Interesting sur how so many people in that festival had the same symptoms.
So how do explain that few days before this festival their nerves were fully alive?

Quote:Well pigeon, do you not understand that you have millions of nerve cells. So nerves cells that died in a local region, doesn't prevent them from growing back or getting killed again. When did I say ALL the nerve cells died?

You are getting lost mate.
Let us stick to these guys.
Before and after this festival their nerves were normal.

You cannot prove any of this. You just wish it to be true.

(March 25, 2015 at 12:43 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

Quote:Not at all sur.
I believe that the physical world can not understand the spiritual world because the spiritual world created the physical in the first place.

You forgot to add "because yoga says so."

Yoga give results so by getting results you can say whether it make sense or not.
You never tried the real yoga so you are NOT in a position to judge.
End of the story.

Quote:Your avoidance of using current or even older definitions shows you don't know how to communicate your ideas.

If you judge by my bad English than i may understand why you think so but i am sure that even if my English would be perfect you still would find something wrong with what i write.
Sorry pal if i can't make you happy but life may be a bit though when you go against mother nature.
That is your problem not mine.

Quote:Society decides what the definitions are. The dictionary only writes them down. If you want to go against society, then there is a white padded room waiting for you.

Wrong again pal.
If someone wouldn't have gone against the main stream there wouldn't be life on earth or we still would be living in caves.
The jails in the countries under dictatorship are full of political prisoners and not only in the places under dictatorship.
People who came up with new ideas are always persecuted but at the end the reason prevail.
Just look at you guys.
In same places atheists are persecuted just because they go against the main stream.
Soon or later however there will be freedom of choosing and nobody will bother you anymore but to achieve this you will have to go against the mainstream.
They may even put you in ........white padded room.

Quote:Analogies are not models. A model is much more refined.

Analogies lead to improvements so it is irrelevant whether they are models or not.

Quote:Not at all sur.
If my statement is a fallacy than you should show that it is by telling me that the baby can understand what is inside his father mind.
You don't therefore is you that fail not me.

Quote:Your rebuttal is even stupider. I don't agree with your inaccurate analogies, and definitely not the conclusions you reach from them.

A perfect excuse for not answering my question.
Nothing new mate.

Quote:You are getting lost mate.
Let us stick to these guys.
Before and after this festival their nerves were normal.

Quote:You cannot prove any of this. You just wish it to be true.

I did prove to myself by being there and see that.
Why don't you go yourself there and see that so you can have a good reason to believe?

(March 26, 2015 at 10:21 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 25, 2015 at 12:43 pm)Surgenator Wrote: You forgot to add "because yoga says so."

Yoga give results so by getting results you can say whether it make sense or not.
You never tried the real yoga so you are NOT in a position to judge.
End of the story.

Christians would claim the same thing about christianity. I don't believe them for the same reason I don't believe yoga. Yoga's results, like christianity's, are indistinguishable from wishful thinking. All these religions, including yoga, all claim an improved life, but an improved life is not the indicator of what is true. Reality might be very depressing, but your insistence that life must bring you satisfaction is the beginning of your flaws. The rest is garbage that follows that premise.

Quote:

Quote:Your avoidance of using current or even older definitions shows you don't know how to communicate your ideas.

If you judge by my bad English than i may understand why you think so but i am sure that even if my English would be perfect you still would find something wrong with what i write.
Sorry pal if i can't make you happy but life may be a bit though when you go against mother nature.
That is your problem not mine.

I have bad english skills as well (as some grammar nazi's will point out). However, it is not your english I'm questioning. It is the definitions of words you want to use. I demand an agreed upon definitions because I don't like it when people try to define their belief as truth. I don't know if you would do such a thing, but I'm not going to give you a chance to do so.

Quote:

Quote:Society decides what the definitions are. The dictionary only writes them down. If you want to go against society, then there is a white padded room waiting for you.

Wrong again pal.
If someone wouldn't have gone against the main stream there wouldn't be life on earth or we still would be living in caves.
The jails in the countries under dictatorship are full of political prisoners and not only in the places under dictatorship.
People who came up with new ideas are always persecuted but at the end the reason prevail.
Just look at you guys.
In same places atheists are persecuted just because they go against the main stream.
Soon or later however there will be freedom of choosing and nobody will bother you anymore but to achieve this you will have to go against the mainstream.
They may even put you in ........white padded room.

Save your over simplistic view of how the world changes. The world changes mainly because someone was able to CONVINCE the rest of society to follow. All you been doing is spreading flawed arguments that are not convincing anyone here.

Quote:

Quote:Analogies are not models. A model is much more refined.

Analogies lead to improvements so it is irrelevant whether they are models or not.

You clearly never studied any real science. I don't know how else to point out how wrong you are about analogies vs models and what scientist and engineers actually use.

Quote:

Quote:Your rebuttal is even stupider. I don't agree with your inaccurate analogies, and definitely not the conclusions you reach from them.

A perfect excuse for not answering my question.
Nothing new mate.

There is too many wrong assumptions in your previous statement. I don't want to write a paragraph about it so that you wont read it.

Quote:

Quote:You cannot prove any of this. You just wish it to be true.

I did prove to myself by being there and see that.
Why don't you go yourself there and see that so you can have a good reason to believe?

You mean you witness them sticking stuff in their cheeks. You don't know if there nerves (that are in their cheeks) are already dead; you assumed they weren't. You don't know if they are just ignoring the pain; you assumed they weren't. You don't know if they are anesthesia; you assumed they weren't. You don't know if there is a neurological reason on why they seem to feel no pain; you assumed there wasn't. To many assumptions on your end to justify your claim.