Welcome, emjay and Rhonda.

(April 12, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Greetings emjay

I'm new here too and thought I'd read what you guys were saying before jumping in.

That's an interesting story. I know what you mean about those conversations that invariably end in tears. Once I actually got into it with my mom on Mother's Da,y of all days. Though for me, it usually ends in cognitive dissonance. I have to check myself and remember that I waws one a Christian and know how the Church programs our mind to think a certain way and guard against real thought.

What about C.S. Lewis did  you find most compelling?

Hello Rhondazvous,

Welcome to the forum


Cognitive dissonance? I'm not too familiar with that term... is that emotional ambivalence? Or living a lie? I feel I'm living a lie in the sense that it feels uncomfortable saying anything bad about my parents - as I had to in intro on here in order to explain my situation - but apart from the religious aspect I love them to pieces.

The C.S. Lewis book just struck me as very original. It just concentrated on a very simple idea: that the 'fall' of Adam was him making the simple choice of self over god, and that hell was the absolute conseqence of that - the complete absense of god - and that heaven was a return to the pre-fall state. The idea was that in the pre-fall state consciousness was somehow purer/more evolved that it is now and that it had full control of the body and was in a state of perfectly blissful dedication to god. The book didn't bang on about the ten commandments or even Jesus, just this simple idea.

I'm interested in meditation - not religious meditation - just meditation and the book appealed to me on that level because it made heaven seem (to me) like a meditative state rather than a physical place and that I could just about buy into as a pleasant fantasy. But a fantasy was all it was because however poetic an author can make it sound in a book at the end of the day when you put that book down you're still left with the Bible, and I can't read even a few pages of that without seeing its contradictions.

How are you liking the forum so far?

(April 12, 2015 at 5:21 pm)I don\t recall you saying anything bad about your parents.  Cognitive dissonance is a state we enter when we discover a differencce between what we've been taught to believe and what turns out to actually be true. If, like me,  you've been raised to think that honoring your mother and father means honoring everything they say with no objections and now you find you can no longer do that, you might be experiencing cognitive dissonance, too.   It's tougher when you live with them because there's no respite. Wrote: I agree, authors like Lewis can make things sound so lovely, but like you said, we can't unread what we've already read in the Bible.

I'm enjoying the forums. Over there building with some folks. Though so far it's like here's a nickel, give me five pennies. I won't find out what it's really like until I get over there in the debates.

I'd like to say something about this idea about the fall of man because when you really think about it, God was the one who made the choise, not Adam. But that would digress from the purpose of the Introductions forum.  I will share it at a later time in a more appropriate place.



emjay

(April 12, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Greetings emjay

I'm new here too and thought I'd read what you guys were saying before jumping in.

That's an interesting story. I know what you mean about those conversations that invariably end in tears. Once I actually got into it with my mom on Mother's Da,y of all days. Though for me, it usually ends in cognitive dissonance. I have to check myself and remember that I waws one a Christian and know how the Church programs our mind to think a certain way and guard against real thought.

What about C.S. Lewis did  you find most compelling?

Hello Rhondazvous,

Welcome to the forum


Cognitive dissonance? I'm not too familiar with that term... is that emotional ambivalence? Or living a lie? I feel I'm living a lie in the sense that it feels uncomfortable saying anything bad about my parents - as I had to in intro on here in order to explain my situation - but apart from the religious aspect I love them to pieces.

The C.S. Lewis book just struck me as very original. It just concentrated on a very simple idea: that the 'fall' of Adam was him making the simple choice of self over god, and that hell was the absolute conseqence of that - the complete absense of god - and that heaven was a return to the pre-fall state. The idea was that in the pre-fall state consciousness was somehow purer/more evolved that it is now and that it had full control of the body and was in a state of perfectly blissful dedication to god. The book didn't bang on about the ten commandments or even Jesus, just this simple idea.

I'm interested in meditation - not religious meditation - just meditation and the book appealed to me on that level because it made heaven seem (to me) like a meditative state rather than a physical place and that I could just about buy into as a pleasant fantasy. But a fantasy was all it was because however poetic an author can make it sound in a book at the end of the day when you put that book down you're still left with the Bible, and I can't read even a few pages of that without seeing its contradictions.

How are you liking the forum so far?

(April 12, 2015 at 7:20 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(April 12, 2015 at 5:21 pm)I don\t recall you saying anything bad about your parents.  Cognitive dissonance is a state we enter when we discover a differencce between what we Wrote: I agree, authors like Lewis can make things sound so lovely, but like you said, we can't unread what we've already read in the Bible.

I'm enjoying the forums. Over there building with some folks. Though so far it's like here's a nickel, give me five pennies. I won't find out what it's really like until I get over there in the debates.

I'd like to say something about this idea about the fall of man because when you really think about it, God was the one who made the choise, not Adam. But that would digress from the purpose of the Introductions forum.  I will share it at a later time in a more appropriate place.

I guess you're right, I didn't did I?... didn't realise quite how careful I'd been with my phrasing. That's where my conflict lies - I want to shout it from the rooftops how stupid I think their beliefs are but at the same time I love them with all my heart and when we're not talking religion we get on wonderfully. So, yeah there is certainly cognitive dissonance going on but there is in my case some respite because they don't preach to me or even bring up the subject - I have to bring it to them if I want a discussion. But I never get the chance to say much - it's like guerilla tactics... whether it's gay or religious issues I have to make my moves carefully and delicately because in the end if it hits too close to home the result is a literal and/or metaphorical door shut in my face.

If you want to start a thread on the fall, I'll happily be a poster in it  But not tonight cos it's 1am my time and about time I was heading off to bed. It's been nice chatting with you and I'll see you another day  

(April 12, 2015 at 8:04 pm)emjay Wrote: I guess you're right, I didn't did I?... didn't realise quite how careful I'd been with my phrasing. That's where my conflict lies - I want to shout it from the rooftops how stupid I think their beliefs are but at the same time I love them with all my heart and when we're not talking religion we get on wonderfully. So, yeah there is certainly cognitive dissonance going on but there is in my case some respite because they don't preach to me or even bring up the subject - I have to bring it to them if I want a discussion. But I never get the chance to say much - it's like guerilla tactics... whether it's gay or religious issues I have to make my moves carefully and delicately because in the end if it hits too close to home the result is a literal and/or metaphorical door shut in my face.

If you want to start a thread on the fall, I'll happily be a poster in it  But not tonight cos it's 1am my time and about time I was heading off to bed. It's been nice chatting with you and I'll see you another day  

Here it is.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-32766.html