(April 23, 2015 at 8:13 am)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(April 23, 2015 at 12:19 am)Godschild Wrote: The verses I was interested in are the ones you say that God and satan play the same role.

As far as the tree of Life what makes you think the needed to eat from it, scripture nowhere indicates they had such a need. Why would God tell them they would die from disobedience if they were able to die, makes no sense what you purpose. Could be the Tree of Life had excellent tasting fruit, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil did according to Eve.

GC

God
1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1  KJV
 
Satan
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1  KJV
 
Both God and Satan blind the minds of unbelievers
John 12:39-40
39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
40 “He has blinded their eyes
    and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
    nor understand with their hearts,
    nor turn—and I would heal them.”[b]

Now the question is, who is "He?" Jesus:
Mark 4:10-13
And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable.  And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables.
“That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them.  And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?”
No matter wheat the Church tells us is the reason Jesus spoke in parables, the man tells us right here it was because he did not want the people to understand and be converted "by any means."
at the same time the Bible tells us that satan blings the people's minds.
2 corinthians 4:4
 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 


As I said it makes no sense to put a Tree of Life in the garden if they already had life.  No argument there. I have already shown you the passage Where God tells them they are free to eat any fruit except that of the Tree of Knowledge. If you refuse to believe what God himself said and you call yourself a child of God? For shame.

2 Samuel 24:1-9 and 1 Chronicles 21:1-6, you are making the same mistake many do, you use a couple of verses to support your belief instead of looking for the truth in the entirety of the story or lesson.
First of all neither God nor Satan can cause man to sin, Satan is allowed to tempt man when God says He can and God says of himself I never tempt mankind. Also you need to understand that just because the two verses seem to say each tempted David only Satan did so. The Hebrew writers do not always distinguish between primary and secondary causes, when God allowed Satan to tempt someone, as he did with David the writer would say God did it.
So, you see Satan was the one who did the tempting, God was the one who was going to punish Israel through David's sin, and taking the census was not in  sinful, it was the pride David had in himself and his army. If you had bothered to read the story in it's entirety you would have noticed the census was for finding out how strong David could make his army and show off to the nations around Israel. Why was God going to punish Israel, the pride they had in themselves and taking credit for what God had done for them. Now to find out this bit of news you would need to read several chapters in two different books, and that's on you to do to find the truth, instead of using two little verses out of the story told in two different books, written by two different authors. Some times what we do is not sinful, it is our motive that are sinful.

John 12:39-40 This is about unbelievers, special unbelievers, those who rejected Christ even though they were presented with evidence, God did not intentionally keep them from himself, He was confirming what was in their hearts by hardening them because they had spent a life time of rejecting Him. This also happened during Isaiah's time that's why the reference to Isaiah's verses. Again you have made the mistake of looking only for your truth and not God's.

Mark 4:10 Again you pull out a verse to try and prove what's not even there. If you had backed up one verse you would have read this, "anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand." Jesus asked all there to listen and understand, what He was teaching was extremely important. Jesus then told them they were the ones interested enough to want to understand the parable, He told them He spoken in parables so the ones who had already hardened there hearts against them would not be able to understand, even though He warned them to listen and learn. These same people had the chance to join the others and find out what the parable meant, yet they went on their marry way.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Again you reach for a single verse to try and prove something that's not there, you should really learn to read the entirety of the story and try to understand it, you know this could be a few verses God is point to you, to take serious. You should have read the previous verse, verse 3, it says this,"If the Good News we preach is hidden behind a veil, it is hidden only from those who are perishing. Why did Paul say they were perishing should be your question. Because they had already rejected the Good News ie. hardened their hearts, and became easy prey for Satan.

Please try to read all the relevant material surrounding verses you want to use to prove what you want to believe and look for the truth they are telling all of us.

GC

(April 23, 2015 at 7:31 pm)I professor Wrote: All of us here, at one time or another, have fallen for the words of the snake, the seeking after the kind of knowledge the snake led them to- is the same kind exalted here.

Notice they were NOT enticed to eat from the tree of Life (which they could have done with no penalty),
just as people disregard eating from it today, in spite of God's offer to taste and see that the Lord is good.
Jesus IS that tree.
He even saw to it that He paid the price for us UPON a tree.
We aren't any different than A&E.
And they were NOT children put to some nasty test.
I always marvel at the despicable character God is painted into at AF.
 You do know the snake still speaks to the children of Adam.
Just say NO to snakes.

Hey professor, why the delayed reaction to the majik spell of the forbidden fruit?

The majik spell didn't  start working until after they both ate from the fruit. 

Why do you suppose that is professor?

H4,
There wasn't any magic spell on the fruit.
The change was within A&E- that change began all the other changes.
I suppose the delay was because Adam was the one in authority and the change could not come until he gave his authority over the the snake (Satan) by his obedience to the snake.

Seems pretty magical to me, if a fruit can bestow knowledge. Though I have seen how some christians don't like to call what their god does magic, because the term has been demonized. Much like the term atheist has been made synonymous with immorality.

Chad, it wasn't the fruit that did anything.

It was the action of Adam and Eve that did it.
How can I relate it?
If you open a book and get some knowledge- is the book magic?
No, you become a bit changed by the information you got.

(April 26, 2015 at 12:52 pm)professor Wrote: Chad, it wasn't the fruit that did anything.

It was the action of Adam and Eve that did it.
How can I relate it?
If you open a book and get some knowledge- is the book magic?
No, you become a bit changed by the information you got.

But you don't gain, say, knowledge of the concept of nudity via disobedience, making it still a nonsensical statement.

(April 26, 2015 at 12:52 pm)professor Wrote: Chad, it wasn't the fruit that did anything.

It was the action of Adam and Eve that did it.
How can I relate it?
If you open a book and get some knowledge- is the book magic?
No, you become a bit changed by the information you got.

You gain knowledge from a book because the book has writing in it. You're implying the apple had writing on it? I suspect not.

(April 26, 2015 at 1:04 pm)Chad32 Wrote: You gain knowledge from a book because the book has writing in it. You're implying the apple had writing on it? I suspect not.

Well, it all comes from a couple of lines the early church took out of Genesis, about how god had taken a knife and peeled words out of the skin of the fruit: "Put your dick away, my garden should not be a sausage-fest!"

Man you guys are tough.
I try to show there was no magic in the fruit and that don't work.

Esq, Adam and Eve were engulfed in light from their creation (God is light and they were made in His image).
A picture of that was when Moses came down the mountain with his face glowing.

A&E did not know they were naked because they could not see past the light emanating from both of them.
It was the light of God and when they rejected the leadership of Him-
the light left and they saw their flesh for the first time and they saw they were naked.

(April 26, 2015 at 1:23 pm)professor Wrote: Man you guys are tough.
I try to show there was no magic in the fruit and that don't work.

Esq, Adam and Eve were engulfed in light from their creation (God is light and they were made in His image).
A picture of that was when Moses came down the mountain with his face glowing.

A&E did not know they were naked because they could not see past the light emanating from both of them.
It was the light of God and when they rejected the leadership of Him-
the light left and they saw their flesh for the first time and they saw they were naked.

So it's not that the fruit was magic, it was that everything else was magic, and that magic was dispelled by the power of fruit-eating.

... Ah yes, that's so much more reasonable.