(June 3, 2015 at 5:24 pm)pocaracas Wrote: My go-to argument is: I see no magic in the real world.

It works for any religion, any mythology.
But feel free to show me some actual real magic.

This in and of itself is not a proof that God does not exist, but after you admit that Jesus was a real person (and it is pathetic to read some of the posts here from the high-schoolers who are still stuck at this level in their new-found atheism), dealing with the question of miracles does make sense.

I have no further thoughts on the other matter. If the Dead Sea Scrolls offered any real threat to Christianity, we would have heard by now. Moving on.

I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but what you see as a fatal blow to Christianity is a non-issue to everyone else.

For someone who seems so condescending to the people with whom you are conversing, you seem to have a "high-school level" understanding of what our position is. You'd be hard pressed to find someone here actually seriously put forth as an argument "This proves God does not exist". The point is that we have no reason to believe that he does exist. There's a difference in those two positions that I hope you're able to see. And no, I'm sorry Randy, some important dude named Jesus that may have existed historically does not suddenly make miracles a reasonable thing to consider.

(June 4, 2015 at 12:10 am)JuliaL Wrote: It must be nice to think of a sky daddy who will make all your dreams come true and mete retribution to all the baaaad people who hurt your feelings in life.

Thank you for your time.

It's been interesting chatting with you on this subject.

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(June 4, 2015 at 8:08 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: For someone who seems so condescending to the people with whom you are conversing, you seem to have a "high-school level" understanding of what our position is.  You'd be hard pressed to find someone here actually seriously put forth as an argument "This proves God does not exist".  

Then you're not reading the same posts that I'm reading.

Now, in order to develop my understanding of atheism, I'm currently reading Tim O'Neill and listening to debates featuring Bart Ehrman, Sam Harris, Kai Nielson and Christopher Hitchens. Richard Dawkins is on my "to-do" list. That in addition to participating in this forum and reading books by Christians on the subject of Atheism.

Which Christian authors are you currently reading in order to expand your depth of knowledge about what they believe?

(June 4, 2015 at 8:59 am)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 4, 2015 at 8:08 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: For someone who seems so condescending to the people with whom you are conversing, you seem to have a "high-school level" understanding of what our position is.  You'd be hard pressed to find someone here actually seriously put forth as an argument "This proves God does not exist".  

Then you're not reading the same posts that I'm reading.

Still not seeing where people are asserting "this is proof that god does not exist".

Quote:Now, in order to develop my understanding of atheism, I'm currently reading Tim O'Neill and listening to debates featuring Bart Ehrman, Sam Harris, Kai Nielson and Christopher Hitchens. Richard Dawkins is on my "to-do" list. That in addition to participating in this forum and reading books by Christians on the subject of Atheism.

Which Christian authors are you currently reading in order to expand your depth of knowledge about what they believe?

No idea where this dick-measuring contest came from; I don't feel the need to impress you with a list of authors I may or may not be reading. I'm literally just pointing out that you're either mistaken about the claims being made, or willfully misrepresenting them. If it's the former, then fair enough everyone makes mistakes, but if it's the latter then it's more intentional and far more annoying and dishonest.

Even if Jesus existed, there is still a long way to be the godboy as the mythology claims.

At any rate, for a more 'down to earth' question, how do you feel about women being ordained priests?

Well, considering the evidence we have for Jesus' existence, we'd also have to consider that Gilgamesh existed, Ulisses existed, and maybe even Hercules...
Now, we may debate on which parts of the stories attributed to these characters actually happened, which were later additions to embellish the stories and which are just made up to draw in more people.

I'm willing to give you a Jesus, in the first century, that was followed by other people for his teachings on how to deal with one another, for his wisdom in interpreting the law of Moses in a humanistic way that people could identify with - the people who didn't want to die nor to kill, the people who didn't want war...
Eventually, either he got cocky and messed with the big dogs who did what they always do; or he just got fed up, settled down someplace where no one knew him and lived out his life.
The part where he gets cocky with the big dogs is reminiscent of the teacher's story(oh... both are some sort of teachers, huh?)... so, maybe, maybe (pointless speculation again), that part of the canon came from that previous reference and the actual person just went away somehow.


What I'm not willing to give you is that this Jesus guy did magic: multiply bread loaves, replenish wine bottles, walk on water, revive dead people, cure virus-induced diseases with a single touch, resurrect.... did I miss any? Oh, son of a god.
Can you convince me that the man actually did this magic? What would you use as backing for it? writings on a book wouldn't cut it... or else, Gilgamesh, Ulisses and Hercules could be real people as well.... not to mention some other characters that have popped-up more recently, like Super-man, Spider-man.
Super-man is actually a great example of how a fictional character can evolve. At first, he was just super strong, super fast and could leap over tall buildings... then, at some point, he could fly.... fly in to outer space, even; shoot lasers from his eyes, etc...

Did you know catholics made up jesus and the hell myth? So pretty much christianity and also catholism is also based on lies and also bronze age mythology that has no basis in the real world.

I have a serious question for you Randy. What are you here for and how is that working out for you?

I'm really curious. Are you hoping [1] that knowing more about catholicism will sway some lost souls to join you in your beliefs? Do you [2] just want more people to know more about your faith than what certain priests do with certain youngsters? Perhaps you [3] want atheists to see that smart people can be believers? Or maybe [4] you just want to make sure that as many non-believers as possible are fully appraised of God so as to ensure they don't qualify for the ignorance exception, thereby ensuring their eternal damnation.

If you don't mind speaking openly about your aspirations here I'm sure more than a few of us would be curious to know.

Thanks.

PS - just thought of a couple more theories for why you're here. Are you [5] looking to deliver pay back for the atheists who crash your catholic site? Or possibly you [6] find that site boring and just find your exchanges here a bit more exciting.

(June 4, 2015 at 8:59 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Thank you for your time.

It's been interesting chatting with you on this subject.

Thanks to you too.
It's been fun.
I constantly test my worldview against available counter arguments to see if any change would be advisable.
So far, I've been able to maintain my confirmation bias without much cognitive dissonance. It, as far as I can tell, conforms to reality.

(June 4, 2015 at 9:12 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(June 4, 2015 at 8:59 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Then you're not reading the same posts that I'm reading.

Still not seeing where people are asserting "this is proof that god does not exist".

Quote:Now, in order to develop my understanding of atheism, I'm currently reading Tim O'Neill and listening to debates featuring Bart Ehrman, Sam Harris, Kai Nielson and Christopher Hitchens. Richard Dawkins is on my "to-do" list. That in addition to participating in this forum and reading books by Christians on the subject of Atheism.

Which Christian authors are you currently reading in order to expand your depth of knowledge about what they believe?

No idea where this dick-measuring contest came from; I don't feel the need to impress you with a list of authors I may or may not be reading.  I'm literally just pointing out that you're either mistaken about the claims being made, or willfully misrepresenting them.  If it's the former, then fair enough everyone makes mistakes, but if it's the latter then it's more intentional and far more annoying and dishonest.

Tell you what...just keep your eyes open for every post in which someone asserts that "X (or lack of X) proves God does not exist."

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(June 4, 2015 at 9:23 am)LastPoet Wrote: Even if Jesus existed, there is still a long way to be the godboy as the mythology claims.

At any rate, for a more 'down to earth' question, how do you feel about women being ordained priests?

Women may not be ordained as priests. This isn't a matter of discipline which the Church can change. Jesus did not ordain women. Neither can we.

The Orthodox and the Catholics have this right; most Protestant denominations have erred on this point.