(June 4, 2015 at 6:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: A little more would be helpful...how does reading the Bible cause you to become an Atheist. What specifically were you reading that caused this?

I just found that the bible was...lacking goodness. I don't know what I am trying to help you do. I don't understand where you're trying to go with this.

Quote:Well, no. That is pretty clear. But remember, Jesus only started ONE Church (cf. Mt. 16:18-19), so what these other "churches" claim or do is not terribly significant to me.

It doesn't really matter if it's significant to you. It's significant to those who attend these churches and especially significant to those who have suffered at the hands of believers in these churches. Just because you think that your church is the one true church doesn't mean that all these other churches aren't out there. Just because in your personal experience you haven't seen abuses in churches doesn't mean they don't happen even in Catholic Churches. To pretend like it's untrue is just as bad as to participate in it IMO.

Quote:The body is dead but the spirit lives on. And the greatest pain that we may know in that state is separation from God. We do NOT get that experience now because we are not fully cognizant of what we do not have.

Think of it this way, if someone grows up in a place where there is no sugar, then Cheesecake is not something that they long for. But having tasted it, they may desire it (even though it is no longer brought to them from the outside). They now have the want for something that they did not want previously.

When we die, we see the spiritual world clearly. We KNOW God exists and how awesome He is. Those who CHOOSE to flee His presence (because they rightly judge themselves unworthy to be there) still long for that sight of glory which they tasted once.

What is a spirit? What is a spiritual world? Where are they? How do you know they're real?

And finally, if we find out that it's all real and we choose not to flee but to band together (millions of us) and tell this god thing that it's a giant douchebag and should resign from it's post, what then?

Quote:Sex frightens children, too. Especially the girls. THINK about what happens to them. Until they are ready for it, well, they aren't ready for it, okay? That's why parents normally EASE into the full truth over the course of several years as the kids are old enough to handle it.

There's no reason at all that a little girl (or boy) should be frightened by the idea of sex. If whatever you're telling your daughter about sex frightens her then you are doing it wrong. I am a woman. I know what happens to me during sex. I see no reason for my daughters to be frightened by that. My daughter is about to turn 7 she thinks sex is fascinating. She asks a lot of questions about it. She wants to know if sperms are actually fish, how to they get into the egg without breaking it, do people ever have a baby that stayed looking like a sperm when it comes out of that uter-whatever thing? Why anyone would want their children to think sex is scary is beyond me.

@Randy
Hi. Just a quick question. Is the sort of hell you're talking about similar to what CS Lewis writes about in I think "The Problem of Pain", and imaginatively portrays in "The Great Divorce"? And if so is that just your take on it or that of the whole Catholic Church? Just curious.

(June 4, 2015 at 6:51 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(June 4, 2015 at 6:48 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: I'm happy to provide that if I can...but what point specifically?

Sorry.  

Your description of hell as separation from god (despite mentions of hellfire) in various places.  

Before I forget...there is nothing "extra-biblical" about Purgatory...there are lots of verses that refer to Purgatory - though the word itself (like "trinity") does not appear.

But as for your request, here is one passage:

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

(June 4, 2015 at 6:50 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(June 4, 2015 at 4:36 pm)Losty Wrote: I play by whatever rules I'm given....unless I'm bored and feeling in need of extra attention then I tend to bend the rules just to see what happens

I'm more of a dominant, really.

I make the rules.

You can make rules for me any time sexy lady

After rereading the OP I mostly agree with everything - Why be good at all? Being evil is so cool that I don't care anymore about being good. I'm gonna rule the world and vandalize Catholics' place of worship, and then I'm gonna replace statues of Jesus by magic dildos and pink unicorns.

(I'm still waiting for someone to define me what being good means) - Is it following what the bible says? What my parents taught me? What I, individually, think is right? What society and the majority says is right? What my favourite philosopher stands for? What is convenient?... Hmmm... No good and evil I guess

(June 4, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Dystopia Wrote: After rereading the OP I mostly agree with everything - Why be good at all? Being evil is so cool that I don't care anymore about being good. I'm gonna rule the world and vandalize Catholics' place of worship, and then I'm gonna replace statues of Jesus by magic dildos and pink unicorns.

(I'm still waiting for someone to define me what being good means) - Is it following what the bible says? What my parents taught me? What I, individually, think is right? What society and the majority says is right? What my favourite philosopher stands for? What is convenient?... Hmmm... No good and evil I guess

I'm sure that someone can show you the difference between good and evil to your satisfaction since you would get to decide the difference.  You'll have it down pat in less than a minute and become an evangelist telling the world the difference between them.

(June 4, 2015 at 7:05 pm)Losty Wrote:

(June 4, 2015 at 6:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: A little more would be helpful...how does reading the Bible cause you to become an Atheist. What specifically were you reading that caused this?

I just found that the bible was...lacking goodness. I don't know what I am trying to help you do. I don't understand where you're trying to go with this.

Just curious. Most people find the idea that Jesus reveals God's love to be a good thing.

Quote:

Quote:Well, no. That is pretty clear. But remember, Jesus only started ONE Church (cf. Mt. 16:18-19), so what these other "churches" claim or do is not terribly significant to me.

It doesn't really matter if it's significant to you. It's significant to those who attend these churches and especially significant to those who have suffered at the hands of believers in these churches. Just because you think that your church is the one true church doesn't mean that all these other churches aren't out there. Just because in your personal experience you haven't seen abuses in churches doesn't mean they don't happen even in Catholic Churches. To pretend like it's untrue is just as bad as to participate in it IMO.

"To pretend...is just as bad." Hmmm...we don't throw pretenders in jail...just perpetrators. But whatever.

There are sinners in every Church because...get this...we are all sinners. And sometimes sinners do bad things...even in Church. I guess that makes God "look bad" somehow, but it says more about us than it does about Him.

Quote:The body is dead but the spirit lives on. And the greatest pain that we may know in that state is separation from God. We do NOT get that experience now because we are not fully cognizant of what we do not have.

Think of it this way, if someone grows up in a place where there is no sugar, then Cheesecake is not something that they long for. But having tasted it, they may desire it (even though it is no longer brought to them from the outside). They now have the want for something that they did not want previously.

When we die, we see the spiritual world clearly. We KNOW God exists and how awesome He is. Those who CHOOSE to flee His presence (because they rightly judge themselves unworthy to be there) still long for that sight of glory which they tasted once.

What is a spirit? What is a spiritual world? Where are they? How do you know they're real?[/quote]

Those are big questions. Let me think about them for awhile. Answering too quickly would not do them justice.

Quote:And finally, if we find out that it's all real and we choose not to flee but to band together (millions of us) and tell this god thing that it's a giant douchebag and should resign from it's post, what then?

Then Gulliver wakes up and shows the Lilliputians what he is capable of.  

Quote:

Quote:Sex frightens children, too. Especially the girls. THINK about what happens to them. Until they are ready for it, well, they aren't ready for it, okay? That's why parents normally EASE into the full truth over the course of several years as the kids are old enough to handle it.

There's no reason at all that a little girl (or boy) should be frightened by the idea of sex. If whatever you're telling your daughter about sex frightens her then you are doing it wrong. I am a woman. I know what happens to me during sex. I see no reason for my daughters to be frightened by that. My daughter is about to turn 7 she thinks sex is fascinating. She asks a lot of questions about it. She wants to know if sperms are actually fish, how to they get into the egg without breaking it, do people ever have a baby that stayed looking like a sperm when it comes out of that uter-whatever thing? Why anyone would want their children to think sex is scary is beyond me.

Every child is different. And sure, kids ask where babies come from. However, the idea of sperm and eggs and fallopian tubes, etc., is a bit removed from, "He's going to lie on top of you and put his..." Well, you know the rest.

Obviously, most females are interested in sex (eventually - even early than males possibly), so it's just a phase and not applicable to all, I suppose.

However, you can Google the relevant key words if you think I've just made this up.

(June 4, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Dystopia Wrote: After rereading the OP I mostly agree with everything - Why be good at all? Being evil is so cool that I don't care anymore about being good. I'm gonna rule the world and vandalize Catholics' place of worship, and then I'm gonna replace statues of Jesus by magic dildos and pink unicorns.

Well, bad boys do get all the fun I suppose.

(June 4, 2015 at 7:08 pm)emjay Wrote: @Randy
Hi. Just a quick question. Is the sort of hell you're talking about similar to what CS Lewis writes about in I think "The Problem of Pain", and imaginatively portrays in "The Great Divorce"? And if so is that just your take on it or that of the whole Catholic Church? Just curious.

I regret that I have not read those two...I own them...just haven't gotten to them, yet. My apologies.

if you want to elaborate, perhaps we can go forward.

(June 4, 2015 at 7:24 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Just curious. Most people find the idea that Jesus reveals God's love to be a good thing.

Yeah, because eternal punishment for finite crimes, shows so much love.