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abaris · June 17, 2015 at 4:59 pm

(June 17, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Cato Wrote: I would like to know when willful ignorance became a fucking virtue.

Didn't you get the memo, It always has been with religion. Otherwise you wouldn't buy the claim. We're only now entering the real age of enlightenment, where more than just a few people start to employ their brain.

Exian · June 17, 2015 at 5:10 pm

Quote:In truth, the world was made perfectly until man corrupted it. Man is not perfect because God gave him free will, etc. Can you guys give me any other links to different arguments?

You seem to be shifting your definition of "perfect". Your original argument is that God exists because there is a perfectly shaped human hole in the world that we fit into precisely.

And now you're saying the world is not perfect because man has corrupted it. But your original parameter for "perfection" was that it allows for humans to exist. If the world is no longer perfect how are we continuing to exist, per your original definition?

My guess is that you have unknowingly changed your usage of "perfect".

Fidel_Castronaut · June 17, 2015 at 6:35 pm

(June 17, 2015 at 11:44 am)onmytablet512 Wrote: Alright. So it seems most of the arguments I am getting right now are something along the lines of "we have no proof that God exists, therefore he must not exist." I can rebutt that with "we have no proof that God does not exist, therefore he must exist," but that's past the point. I'd like to present to you guys my argument for the existence of God and see what you guys respond with (so far I have not been able to come up with any rebuttal for it.) Please look at this with the open mind that I will look at your rebuttals with

I believe that God exists because of the complexity of the universe. In my opinion, there is absolutely no way this could have all happened by chance. It honestly feels like way too many coincidences to result in the universe we know today.

Take a chromosome. Those seem pretty small and unimportant; I mean, we only have 46 of them. But our 46 chromosomes have about 6x10^9 base pairs in them, totaling up for an information storage of 1.5 gigabytes of data. It also happens that these 6 billion base pairs are perfectly lined up so that we come out as a unique living creature. Just one chromosome pair being off of the 6 billion can give genetic diseases, so if there is no God, why are there so few errors in the chromosome pairing? Shouldn't we have so many errors from the random creation of humans that we are born completely messed up?

You could also take a look at the Earth and, namely, it's position in the Universe. We are perfectly positioned, both by axis of rotation and distance from the Sun, so that we have just enough heat to be comfortable but not contract heat stroke by walking outside and just enough cold to be comfortable but not catch hypothermia or frostbite upon leaving the house. The Earth even has an elliptical orbit that leads to the seasons being created, which seems like an extremely delicate balance to be randomly created.

What about life itself? And not even life, but all the things that come with it- conscience, emotions, etc. We don't have a scientific explanation I know of that can explain the "little voice inside your head." So if there is not a God, what is our explanation for this? How was life first created? And if it was created from biological slime, why haven't we been able to reproduce that?

I've got a few more like this I could put together if anyone wanted. Any and all rebuttals are appreciated!

Aka, an argument from ignorance.

Sorry, but this is all an argument from ignorance and has as all been posted and debunked a million times on this forum alone.

**Minimalist** · June 17, 2015 at 6:38 pm

Quote:In total then, outside of the bible, these are the only 3 non-christian sources of proof of the historicity of jesus.

Tacitus....even if it isn't a much later interpolation ( which it is ) never heard of anyone named "jesus."

**Cyberman** · June 18, 2015 at 1:24 am

Incidentally, all planets have elliptical orbits, as do stars in binary and trinary systems. Even artificial satellites and probes follow elliptical orbits. It's called orbital mechanics. It's as much a miracle as weather patterns.

**robvalue** · June 18, 2015 at 1:43 am

How about the fact that virtually 100% of the universe God created for us is deadly to us?

Whoops. I wouldn't call that perfection, I'd call that a newbie God on work experience who hit some wrong buttons and someone forgot to turn this mess off.

onmytablet512 · June 18, 2015 at 1:56 am

It seems we once again have a massive amount of replies that basically relate to the fact that because there is no proof of God, he must not exist. As to the whole "if God is loving why is there evil in the world," I can only say that I don't understand it either. God works in mysterious ways sounds like a very lame argument, but it is true. As a man with very limited understanding of the entire picture of the Universe, I have no way of fathoming how God works or the thought processes he goes through. The evil in the world could be a testing of faith, it could be the Devil's interventions- there are a few explanations I can think of, but again, he's God and I'm human. I can't understand his thought processes.

**robvalue** · (This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 2:13 am by robvalue.)

No, we're not saying he must not exist. We're saying there is no good reason to think he does exist.

There is a big difference! You are still representing our position.

If this still doesn't make sense, please read my article here.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 2:01 am by The Grand Nudger.)

Then we shouldn't expect any comments from you about gods desires, or intentions, or plans going forward, right? They are beyond your comprehension, just too mysterious.

Longhorn · June 18, 2015 at 2:14 am

How do you know anything about god, onmytablet512?

From the bible? How do the authors know?

I'm going to tell you a little secret: they don't. They made this shit up. There is no possible way for anyone to know anything about god. It's all pulled out of the ass.

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