(July 3, 2015 at 3:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: It's not only growing, but exploding in Asia and Africa.

It always grows where ignorance is rampant and dies out where knowledge abounds.  You should ask yourself why that is but I know you won't.

So people in Asia and Africa have little knowledge - just brute savages - and you're an example of knowledge and enlightenment?

(July 2, 2015 at 2:08 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 1:53 pm)cercatorius Wrote: I feel that the bible is a collection of letters, poetry, fables, and word-of-mouth versions of events from history (not necessarily actual history), and a wonderful collection of myths.  I do not believe it to be a guidebook, history book, or science book. I do not believe it is inerrant, nor is it the inspired word of god. I think truth can be found in parts of it.  I think there is also truth in other myths (different than facts), fables, poetry, etc.  I think one of the biggest tragedies is people who want to make it a continuous single piece of work. That takes a lot of perspective away in one fell swoop.  In short, I think the bible is the pieced together written record of one group of people's ongoing attempt to make sense of their world and relate to the force of creation, and destruction.
...

If the Bible is just a collection of works written by uninspired people, why are you a Christian at all?  Why are you not some other sort of theist?  It seems to me that you have rejected the foundation of Christianity, but still accept some form of Christianity.  Why do that?

Well I made it this far in catching up before jumping in to say what others probably already have.  Oh well ..

I've heard her say the bible is one inspiring book among many and her personal choice.  She has specifically said it isn't necessary for everyone and other ways are as good or better for others.  That's good enough for me.  We all get to make our choices and she isn't pushing to make mine.  Yay for better theology.

(July 2, 2015 at 2:15 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 2:02 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: Okay.. before you all jump on the bashing bandwagon train please know that Cercatorius is my friend, first and foremost. So, if you would all PLEASE show a bit of restraint and understand that I invited her here because we don't have enough knowledgeable theists here and of the ones that are here - they either preach, try to convert, spin fantastic tales of bullshit or they engage in a circle jerk of arguments that seemingly go nowhere.

I wanted her here because, I appreciate the views she has given. She has stood up for me and MY views when several of the fundies on my facebook friends list chose to bash me for my opinions and thoughts. She gets it. She really does and if you all just give her a chance, you might come to understand that.

First, I don't appreciate being told how to interact on the forum. If I see bullshit, I might call it out, and that's my prerogative.

Second, it's nice you appreciate her views and that she's stood up for you.  That doesn't mean anything to the rest of us except that it's a nice thing to do. It doesn't mean her views are any less batshit than anyone else's.

Why don't you do you, let her do her, and let me be me?

Judi didn't tell anyone how to interact.  She clearly and politely asked a favor.  She doesn't need permission to do that.  I'm liking the way Judi is being Judi.

(July 2, 2015 at 2:21 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 2:02 pm)cercatorius Wrote: I think that there is a broad spectrum. I'm rather in the process of deconstructing right now, to be honest. At the moment, I'm neck deep in Rene Girard's theories on mimetic theory and reevaluating my beliefs in that context.  I very much enjoy his ideas on violence and sacrifice and their place in religion.  I believe Jesus to have been someone who was more fully in touch with his own humanity than I am. His teachings offer a good guideline for me to step out of rivalry with others and hopefully evolve in my treatment of others, and also myself.

This borders on the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, but unless there's something in there about believing that Jehovah is the one true god (that actually exists) and that Jesus is his son (that actually existed), "progressive christianity" doesn't sound like it's actually christianity by definition. 

Oh my, and here I thought it was only xtians who liked showing up here and insisting we abide by their definition of what we claim to believe.  She is suggesting an intelligent, allegorical reading of the bible.  Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.  If it were possible for more xtians raised in stupid, literal traditions to move in her direction I would count it as a win for everyone.  Gawd knows there are many, many more fundies than intelligent xtians.  This is a good thing, not a categorical mistake.
Anyway, I don't hear her suggesting that there would be any advantage to us as atheists in adopting her views.  I'm not tempted but I count her as a peer and a well developed person.

(July 3, 2015 at 3:53 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 2:15 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: First, I don't appreciate being told how to interact on the forum. If I see bullshit, I might call it out, and that's my prerogative.

Second, it's nice you appreciate her views and that she's stood up for you.  That doesn't mean anything to the rest of us except that it's a nice thing to do. It doesn't mean her views are any less batshit than anyone else's.

Why don't you do you, let her do her, and let me be me?

Judi didn't tell anyone how to interact.  She clearly and politely asked a favor.  She doesn't need permission to do that.  I'm liking the way Judi is being Judi.

That's nice.

@ cercatorius, I do not understand why you want to call yourself a Christian when you do not believe in what Christianity actually is. You seem to be a very nice person and that's good, however claiming to be a Christian and not believing what we do puts a bad light on Christianity, if that's not your intention and I do not believe it is why use the name of someone you do not believe is real. People already accuse Christians of believing to many different things from each other, which isn't true though we have differences, so why add another thing for us to try and defend, especially when you do not believe in Christianity. I believe in your right to call your beliefs whatever you want, I do not believe it's right to do so when it brings problems to any community of believers. Lek and I are of like mind on this , so it's not just me and I would say you've heard this from other Christians too.

GC

The emphasis in the story is that God was pleased with Abraham for having real Faith in the Lord. He had Faith that regardless of how it seemed to him, the Lord's will was his will , and he knew it was for better. For he was a messenger, and was instilled with the word, from God.

Hey I've got a question for you cerca.

I assume you do believe some sort of God exists, regardless of how closely the bible describes it.

Do you believe that this God interacts with what we perceive as reality (in recent times)? If so, how often, what kind of thing, and how do you distinguish between stuff just happening and God doing stuff?

We did have a deist Christian here a while back (he said God does not interact, but is still the biblical God.) But I think I broke him The only part of the bible he believed actually happened was Jesus being God, and I asked how this is "not interacting". That was the last we heard from him.