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Yep, said it again. And one more time. I claim that there is absolutely no god.
Anyway, on to the real discussion.
Reading some of the stupid off the wall stupidity by our 'friends' lately, got me to thinking.
If there were a god, why then would there even be a physical reality? A god could just create minds and put whatever it wants into these minds. If that were what god did, then there is no physical reality and no need to make it appear as such. Surely a god could accomplish all it wanted, even the tyrannical misanthrope of the babble-book, without the need or appearance of any sort of physical reality.
Therefore, because there is a physical reality, there is no god.
For the theists that might want to entertain a thought or two here, this is not a thread for your stupid books or your proselytizing. This is not about morals, good, evil, or accepting your bullshit god. If that is your intent, go start your own fucking thread and KEEP OUT!
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
(July 23, 2015 at 12:32 am)IATIA Wrote: If there were a god, why then would there even be a physical reality? A god could just create minds and put whatever it wants into these minds. If that were what god did, then there is no physical reality and no need to make it appear as such. Surely a god could accomplish all it wanted, even the tyrannical misanthrope of the babble-book, without the need or appearance of any sort of physical reality.
What IS physical reality, actually? It is the relationship among properties of things, and those properties are related in consistent and reliable ways. In fact, as far as we know, we don't even need the things-- because we only interface with physical reality through properties. So the universe is a kind of arena in which a set of principles and properties interact through time.
If I were a god with a lot of free time on my hands, then that's just the kind of thing I'd do.
July 23, 2015 at 2:22 am (This post was last modified: July 23, 2015 at 2:48 am by robvalue.)
(July 23, 2015 at 12:53 am)ignoramus Wrote: Rob, here's one for you....
Excercise those fallacy detecting skills of yours.... There's several.
Can't spoil it too early.... it's a little quiet, let's milk this one...
Yeah There are a few little errors. It would be interesting to see if any theists have learned enough to be able to spot them. Let's see if they have!
I hope you don't consider it rude IATIA? I'm not making fun of you, just responding to ignor's idea. It gives the theists a chance to interact in a non-preachy way.
Some general ponsy thoughts:
I still think the most compelling argument for gnostic atheism is via ignosticism. The claim is incoherent. How can I differentiate between a god, and an arbitrarily powerful non God? I doubt anyone asking me if there is a god could answer that question. None have so far. To give an answer, I have to make a lot of assumptions about the person asking the question. Assumptions which would be wrong in most cases. So I have no choice but to say, "What is a god?" I simply can't give a blanket answer without an accompanying definition. And it's about the least well defined term ever. I know there is no such thing as a "God" as put forward in the question in general discussion with random people, because it's a non-concept. Not only do I not know what a god is, but most of the time they don't either. It requires clarification, not an answer.
In almost all cases, the question is really, "Is/was there some intelligent intent behind our reality?"
And then the implication which makes it an incoherent and loaded question, is "If so, I call it god. I then reserve the right to give this god any attribute I see fit without explanation, or demonstrating it's even possible."
Remove this second load of garbage and we have a coherent question. And of course, the answer is, "I don't know. Neither do you."
You could say this is the "philosophical" God or whatever, but still, it's a completely needless muddying of the question with loaded terms. If the philosophical God is just a being which creates realities, then it's a useless tautological definition added onto the aforementioned first question. So it's a fucking stupid question whatever way you slice it. To simply assume the person "means" the philosophical god when being asked this question in general would be a mistake, I think you'll agree.
Strong atheism (the belief that there is no God) is easily justified by simply observing there is no evidence for one, even if you give the benefit of the doubt that it's a coherent concept and try and "best guess" what they are talking about.
Tl;dr- I'm a ponsy fuck, aren't I? Geez.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
July 23, 2015 at 6:23 am (This post was last modified: July 23, 2015 at 6:29 am by Excited Penguin.)
(July 23, 2015 at 2:02 am)bennyboy Wrote:
(July 23, 2015 at 12:32 am)IATIA Wrote: If there were a god, why then would there even be a physical reality? A god could just create minds and put whatever it wants into these minds. If that were what god did, then there is no physical reality and no need to make it appear as such. Surely a god could accomplish all it wanted, even the tyrannical misanthrope of the babble-book, without the need or appearance of any sort of physical reality.
What IS physical reality, actually? It is the relationship among properties of things, and those properties are related in consistent and reliable ways. In fact, as far as we know, we don't even need the things-- because we only interface with physical reality through properties. So the universe is a kind of arena in which a set of principles and properties interact through time.
If I were a god with a lot of free time on my hands, then that's just the kind of thing I'd do.
That's what reading bad, outdated philosophy will do to you. Sigh.
God could exist. It depends on the definition.
If God is defined as existence itself, meaning the existence of the whole universe, then fine, "God" is real. But why the term god, then?! What, does it sound nice or smth?
If God is defined as "Good" or any other quality in a Platonic way, then we start getting into trouble. That's nonsense.
(July 23, 2015 at 5:03 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Maybe God loves science more then Atheists. Go figure. That would be enough to explain it.
No, it wouldn't. Science is a method of discovering how the universe works. God, who's supposed to have created the universe and who knows everything - has no use for science whatsoever. Experiments and tests are necessary for ignorant beings, who are trying to find out something. Is your god such a being?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
