Overpopulation

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not saying I do or don't believe that overpopulation is a problem. Honestly, I just don't have enough information to form an opinion either way on this issue.

...But for those of you who firmly believe that overpopulation is indeed a problem, how do you view having children?

Correct me if I am wrong,  but if you think overpopulation is a problem, it seems like it would logically follow that you would consider it immoral or at least unfavorable to have kids. Is this the case? Why or why not?

Please explain.

[abaris]

I'm not saying I do or don't believe that overpopulation is a problem. Honestly, I just don't have enough information to form an opinion either way on this issue.

I don't think that ovepopulation is a problem. Food distribution is. Resource distribution is. Access to clean water is. Access to health care is. Education is.

Nonetheless I don't have any children. The opportunity didn't present itself, but overpopulation never was any concern.

[Minimalist]

Overpopulation is a most serious problem.  People are natural born troublemakers and the more of them around the worse things will get.

I have two.  Of course one is pushing 40 and the other is 36 and no one was worried about it back then.  My kids, OTOH, have decided not to have kids.  I think they are right.  This planet is due for a severe fucking over from mother nature.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/world/....html?_r=0

Over all, the report said, the world’s current population of 7.3 billion is expected to reach 9.7 billion by 2050, slightly more than the 9.6 billion forecast two years ago. The number could reach 11.2 billion by the end of the century.

That's a lot of people in a world beset by climate change.

[Clueless Morgan]

I'm not saying I do or don't believe that overpopulation is a problem.

I do.

...But for those of you who firmly believe that overpopulation is indeed a problem, how do you view having children?

I don't know that I "firmly" believe that overpopulation is a problem, but I do believe that human populations have reached a level that it is negatively impacting the environment and other animal species on this planet that have just as much claim to the Earth as we do.  That's not to say that if population levels were lower we would be significantly less of a threat to animals or the environment (I can see pro and con arguments on these issues), but I do think that human population levels are stressing the planet and that our technology (for example, technology related to food production, water-purification and general resource management) is not sufficiently advanced to offset the damage we're doing as population levels increase.

how do you view having children?

I'm choosing not to.

Correct me if I am wrong,  but if you think overpopulation is a problem, it seems like it would logically follow that you would consider it immoral or at least unfavorable to have kids.

I don't see it as immoral, I see it as more amoral.

I do, however, find having children to be an unfavorable action, but that's because I don't particularly care to ever be pregnant and I don't have a desire to raise a child.  But just because these are my own feelings doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with me, or that I should dictate what other people get to do.

Is this the case? Why or why not?

Calling procreation immoral implies, to me, that everyone else agrees that overpopulation is problem (which they don't) or that everyone should "know better" than to procreate (which they don't).  Many people, in fact, are doing nothing more than following their biological urges which just so happen to result in the birth of a child.

Ultimately, I see overpopulation as a "tragedy of the commons" type issue: individuals acting out of self-interest and (unintentionally?) squandering a resource.


I do find the Catholic Church's stand against contraceptive devices like condoms to be absolutely, 100%, reprehensibly immoral, though.  I mean, if you want to talk about things that are actually immoral.

[abaris]

This planet is due for a severe fucking over from mother nature.

Mother nature isn't doing the fucking. The fucking has been initiated by humans wasting resources and polluting the atmosphere as if there is no tommorow.

Mother nature is only the one who will shrug us off at some time, just like an elephant is getting rid of a pesky mosquito.

[Minimalist]

"Mother Nature" is just a convenient handle to use.

Last night I saw a special on the Marshall Islands.  They are sinking or rather the ocean is rising.  Ten thousand of them have already moved to Arkansas.  Wait till the rednecks find out!

[Clueless Morgan]

This planet is due for a severe fucking over from mother nature.

Mother nature isn't doing the fucking. The fucking has been initiated by humans wasting resources and polluting the atmosphere as if there is no tommorow.

Mother nature is only the one who will shrug us off at some time, just like an elephant is getting rid of a pesky mosquito.

I rather agree.  It's not the Earth I'm "worried" about, it's what humans are doing to affect other animals and the environments that support those animals.

Barring some sort of irreversable positive feedback loop unintentionally set into motion by humans, my guess is that the Earth will be just fine and when humanity eventually nukes itself into oblivion, the remaining animal species that manage to eek out an existence through the nuclear winter that follows will evolve into the next generation of life on Earth.

How's that for optimism?? 

[CapnAwesome]

Yeah, I both believe that over population is a problem and that it's immoral to have children, or at least to have very many of them. I'm a committed non-breeder and have ended relationships over it. I think it's probably one of the biggest overlooked moral issues of our time. The why of it is easy. The earth cannot sustainably support as many people as are one it today. I also think there are good arguments that overpopulation caused the genocide in rwanda, and is inevitibly going to cause a similar genocide in Haiti. I also think over population has been the cause of a number of similar terrible events in the past. If people have not read the book Collapse by Jered Diamond, I think he makes an extremely convincing case of this. When you believe over population is the cause of many disasters, the moral angle is obvious.

[Minimalist]

You sound like George Carlin from a long time ago.

[Pyrrho]

I think overpopulation is a problem.  And it is exacerbated by improper distribution of resources.

I don't have children, and never will.

In general, I think it is immoral to have children, both because of overpopulation, and because one is deciding to bring someone into the world without their consent.  (Ask robvalue about that second part if you need it explained to you.  His perspective is interesting.)  I say, "in general," because, of course, accidents happen even among those who are careful, and different options are available in different parts of the world.  Someone who has no access to birth control is not at all in the same situation as someone who does, and so allowances should be considered for differences in circumstances.  I don't think that people should be intentionally having children.