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Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 9:21 pm
Please read this post before replying to the poll.
Imagine that the world has finally cone under one government rule. The Congress or Parliament or whatever the lawmaking body is called, is composed of 1001 members. You are one of them.
Other methods of solving the problem of overpopulation have been tried, but all methods have failed. Sex education for everyone, free birth control for everyone, paying people to get sterilized and giving them tax breaks for not having children, etc. All have had some effect, but the simple fact is, all of the efforts have not prevented the population from continuing to rise. You are now faced with a final choice: Either you will let the population get too big, destroying the environment and leading to millions of people dying from starvation and related deaths, or you will force people to have fewer children than they are choosing on their own.
The governing legislative body is divided, with 500 favoring forcing people to not have so many children, and 500 refusing to do this. You, though, are also a member of this legislative body, and you get to cast the deciding vote. Your choice is simple, but unpleasant; either:
1) Allow people to continue to reproduce as they wish, which will result in millions of people dying of starvation, or
2) Force people to not reproduce as much as they wish (i.e., people who reproduce will be forcibly made sterile).
All other options have been tried and they all failed to reduce the growth of population enough to prevent this problem (which explains why there is no "other" in the poll; that "other" idea you have has already been tried and it failed, so you have no other choices than those listed). Everyone hoped that voluntary methods would work, but unfortunately, they have not.
So, either people's freedom to reproduce will be imposed upon, or their ability to eat will be imposed upon. Which will you decide?
If you have any clarifying questions that you wish to ask before you vote, please do so.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 9:39 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 9:21 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: 2) Force people to not reproduce as much as they wish (i.e., people who reproduce will be forcibly made sterile).
What exactly do you mean by this? Does this mean that if a woman get's pregnant the government will take her by force and abort her child against her will?
Or do you just mean that if a woman get's pregnant she will be forcefully taken and made sterile after that child was born?
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 9:45 pm
I'd vote for slightly less freedom for people so they don't starve, although I certainly hope it never comes to that.
For those who want children one piece of amazingly unthinkable advice, ADOPT.
BTW is the OP a leading question or a loaded question? I always get those two confused 
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 9:46 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 9:21 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: 2) Force people to not reproduce as much as they wish (i.e., people who reproduce will be forcibly made sterile).
What exactly do you mean by this? Does this mean that if a woman get's pregnant the government will take her by force and abort her child against her will?
Or do you just mean that if a woman get's pregnant she will be forcefully taken and made sterile after that child was born?
It means a forced restriction against having children to keep over population under control. Only men would really need to get sterile.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 9:49 pm
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm by Dystopia.)
Since it's obvious you are looking for the pragmatic solution to ensure our survival in the long run, why not simply execute half of the population, specifically old people and others that we don't need in society? I mean, it's cheaper than the technology, funds and investment necessary to control who reproduces and it's not like we are concerned about morality, right?
How do you propose even implementing the measure? How do you know who has kids? You know it's possible to hide it from society, right? How do you know someone is pregnant? How do you determine who has more or less kids? Which criterion?
Another thing - I somehow feel that the countries where we have the resources to actually try this are the ones that need these measures the least.
As a regular cis male, being sterile would feel awful to me, I don't know why - I would gladly kill and shoot on sight anyone who tries to take me to forced sterilization, and I don't think I'm the only one.
You are also proposing a very peculiar and unlikely scenario - With strong economic benefits most people would have less kids. Heck, if I was paid to not have kids I wouldn't have them, period.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 9:53 pm
I realize your question is a hypothetical one, but I encourage you to watch this documentary by Hans Rosling about the myth of overpopulation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA5BM7CE5-8
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 10:05 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 9:21 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: 2) Force people to not reproduce as much as they wish (i.e., people who reproduce will be forcibly made sterile).
What exactly do you mean by this? Does this mean that if a woman get's pregnant the government will take her by force and abort her child against her will?
No.
(July 10, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Or do you just mean that if a woman get's pregnant she will be forcefully taken and made sterile after that child was born?
Yes.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 10:06 pm
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2015 at 10:09 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
Well, my question has not been answered yet, but I don't think it would change my vote anyway. But I will answer as though you said sterilization only, not abortion.
I vote for the first option. I don't think anything can justify a government that is powerful enough and tyrannical enough to forcefully take people from their homes and sterilize them against their will. Stripping people of their basic human rights like that just seems inherently wrong to me, and would remain inherently wrong regardless of what the consequences would be otherwise. Humanity would end up going extinct? Ok, that totally sucks, but what's the point of living if it's in a place that strips you of your human dignity by taking away such a basic right and treating people like cattle? If they're willing to do that, what else would they be willing to do?
With that being said, I would hope everyone would practice responsible family planning as to avoid getting to this point, but would never force anything like that on any human being.
EDIT: I see you responded now. Sorry.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 10:08 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Ashground Wrote: I'd vote for slightly less freedom for people so they don't starve, although I certainly hope it never comes to that.
For those who want children one piece of amazingly unthinkable advice, ADOPT.
BTW is the OP a leading question or a loaded question? I always get those two confused
It is in response to being questioned about my response to another thread. Specifically, this thread:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-34562.html
I certainly hope it will never come to such a choice either.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Overpopulation: You get to cast the deciding vote.
July 10, 2015 at 10:12 pm
Trying to separate the deontologists from the consequentialists? I'll take my seat with the former.
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