Exposing Christianity

[Randy Carson]

Is it your opinion that these activities were orchestrated by the Pope or other senior officials in the Vatican?

Or were these efforts made by a few priests acting on their own initiatives?

Look up Alois Hudal and Krunoslav Stjepan Draganović. Both high ranking clergymen operating directly from Rome and with the knowledge if not support of the Vatican.

You can wash your hands on the matter and say the pope wasn't directly involved or orchestrated it - and you would be right. Or you can open your eyes and see that not everything was rosy. Pius XII was a weak personality, who tried to swing both ways during and after the war. On the one hand he had strong affections for Germany, since he was Nuntius there and helped negotiate the concordat. On the other hand he really helped jews during the occupation.

And after the war, it's the same picture. The so called Rat Line, through which many high ranking Nazis escaped, wouldn't have been possible without the help of high ranking clergy. But it also existed because US services supported it, in order to get certain individuals out, they had recruited against the Soviets.

Here's a book by a Jewish Rabbi that you might want to read:

[abaris]

No, I might not want to read it, since we were there before several months ago. Look it up.

Again, the usual cherry picking quote mining. One jew, who happens to agree with you and you don't look any further. So, as I have done back then, several months ago, here's what the jewish library has to say. They even mention the book in question.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso.../pius.html

[Fake Messiah]

Look up Alois Hudal and Krunoslav Stjepan Draganović. Both high ranking clergymen operating directly from Rome and with the knowledge if not support of the Vatican.

You can wash your hands on the matter and say the pope wasn't directly involved or orchestrated it - and you would be right. Or you can open your eyes and see that not everything was rosy. Pius XII was a weak personality, who tried to swing both ways during and after the war. On the one hand he had strong affections for Germany, since he was Nuntius there and helped negotiate the concordat. On the other hand he really helped jews during the occupation.

And after the war, it's the same picture. The so called Rat Line, through which many high ranking Nazis escaped, wouldn't have been possible without the help of high ranking clergy. But it also existed because US services supported it, in order to get certain individuals out, they had recruited against the Soviets.

Here's a book by a Jewish Rabbi that you might want to read:

"How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis" and yet 5 million Jews died in camps - he's really not much of a helper isn't he? And let me guess he never mentions ratline?
Besides I'm not saying he killed the Jews but he did help Nazi Jews killers escape. Bishop Jakob Weinbacher, Hudal’s successor at the Anima and an acknowledged opponent of the Nazis, refers to the once-close relationship between Hudal and the Pope:
Bishop Hudal was very close to Pope Pius XII—there is no doubt of that; they were friends. I talked a lot with him and this certainly emerged very clearly. But he never spoke about the things he did after the war. He was . . . well, perhaps ‘secretive’ is too strong a word, but certainly he was very discreet about it; he didn’t like to talk about it at all. One knew his political position, of course, so one was careful.
In Rome everyone knew that Hudal was supplying refugees with visas, travel documents, and denazification certificates. Weinbacher went on, ‘I think he also helped other people, but there is no doubt that among those he eventually assisted were a great many of the Nazi higherups.’

Pope Pius XII helped Mussolini win the elections which also resulted in killings of many Jews - for starters. When Lateran Pacts converted Mussolini into a hero for devout Italians. Many homes soon had a picture of Il Duce hanging next to one of the Pope or a crucifix. Even Hitler hailed the church for “making its peace with Fascism.” The influential Cardinal Merry del Val said Mussolini was “visibly protected by God.” National elections were held only a month after the Lateran Pacts were signed. Priests used their pulpits to urge Catholics to vote for the fascists. In those elections—the first time women voted—the National Fascist Party won an astonishing 98 percent of parliamentary seats.

And from what I checked around I see that your book "How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis" also uses the claims how there is media conspiracy against the Christians, but quite the opposite is the truth for when in the 1961 Eichmann trial, little importance was given either to illegal emigration or the background to it. A great deal of attention was probably devoted to editing out the involvement of major institutions such as the Catholic Church or the ICRC, and this was done almost completely. As an observer of the trial in Jerusalem, the philosopher Hannah Arendt was able to tease out only a few references to the role of such institutions in Eichmann’s flight. The notes that Eichmann took during his time in prison, ‘My Escape: Report from the Cell in Jerusalem’, could not be kept entirely hidden from the international press. But, in the end, such reports disappeared for decades into the CIA archives and were only released a few years ago.

Certainly we all know that Catholic church played on both teams in WW2. On ally side there were many Catholics as well the fact that every Wermacht soldier wore slogan "Gott mit uns" (God with us) on their belt buckles. That is all because the fact that Bible is very muddled and can encourage you to be the killer of heretics as well as killer of the killer of heretics. Because there is a Jesus of the "Golden Rule" and there is the vengeful Jesus, the killer of heretics that ignited the flames of inquisition and quite possibly even gassing of Jews.

And when it comes to what Catholics did or didn't do it just depends how eager you are willing to believe their lies. Since TV is wrought with Christian propaganda I remember seeing few years ago Catholic documentary in which they claimed how inquisitions were overblown and that only few people died as a result and not 300 000 tortured and dead in Spain alone - you know the devilish leftist media. As well that Vatican won't ever say that they are against any group of people. In numerous times I've read in news papers interviews with Catholic priests saying that Church are not against gay people and then explaining that they are just against the sin of homosexuality. Or articles that Church was never against Evolution that that is an invention of atheists! Which is OK information for the gullible flock that is indoctrinated not to think, let alone research.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Nobody's even mentioned the Ustaše yet, which very much had support from various members of the clergy at the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balkan-Idols-Rel...lkan+idols

[abaris]

Nobody's even mentioned the Ustaše yet, which very much had support from various members of the clergy at the time:

I didn't mention them for a reason. Because I'm not as dishonest as Randy. True, the Ustaše had the sympathies of many in the high clergy, but it's not that clear if they actually supported the regime. Also true, Ante Pavelic could escape justice with the help of the church. And the aforementioned Stjepan Draganović was a highranking official in the organisation before he went to Rome where he later helped install the Rat Line, through which Pavelic ultimately managed to escape.

You could of course also mention the Slovakian regime, led by an actual priest: Jozef Tiso, who after the war was executed. Again, I didn't mention these regimes because actual Vatican involvement cannont be proven and probably didn't happen.

That, of course, doesn't mean that Rome didn't look kindly at them. It also doesn't mean that priests didn't take active roles within these regimes.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Nobody's even mentioned the Ustaše yet, which very much had support from various members of the clergy at the time:

I didn't mention them for a reason. Because I'm not as dishonest as Randy. True, the Ustaše had the sympathies of many in the high clergy, but it's not that clear if they actually supported the regime. Also true, Ante Pavelic could escape justice with the help of the church. And the aforementioned Stjepan Draganović was a highranking official in the organisation before he went to Rome where he later helped install the Rat Line, through which Pavelic ultimately managed to escape.

You could of course also mention the Slovakian regime, led by an actual priest: Jozef Tiso, who after the war was executed. Again, I didn't mention these regimes because actual Vatican involvement cannont be proven and probably didn't happen.

That, of course, doesn't mean that Rome didn't look kindly at them. It also doesn't mean that priests didn't take active roles within these regimes.

Communist!

[Fake Messiah]

And talking about popes and antisemitism: don't forget about another "wonderful" pope John Paul II who embraced wholeheartedly that antisemitic movie "Passion" where all the Jews in the movie are boiling with hate toward Jesus.
I mean we're talking about the guy that prohibited Jesus movies like singing Jesus in "Jesus Christ Superstar" or horny Jesus in "Last Temptation of Christ", but when met with a movie made by an antisemite based on vile antisemitic book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" that was written by equally hateful antisemite ( on page 81, "the cruel Jews." On page 64, "the crime of the Jews." On page 102, "The Jews, having exhausted their barbarity.") then this "Holy Spirit driven" man proclaims it realistic and urges billions of people to see it, making it a block buster that later some directors also tried to exploit, like Darren Aronofsky, but didn't succeed with being blessed by pope, although the movie was an equal turd with "The Passion" but was not antisemitic what popes really like in a movie.

[Randy Carson]

And talking about popes and antisemitism: don't forget about another "wonderful" pope John Paul II who embraced wholeheartedly that antisemitic movie "Passion" where all the Jews in the movie are boiling with hate toward Jesus.
I mean we're talking about the guy that prohibited Jesus movies like singing Jesus in "Jesus Christ Superstar" or horny Jesus in "Last Temptation of Christ", but when met with a movie made by an antisemite based on vile antisemitic book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" that was written by equally hateful antisemite ( on page 81, "the cruel Jews." On page 64, "the crime of the Jews." On page 102, "The Jews, having exhausted their barbarity.") then this "Holy Spirit driven" man proclaims it realistic and urges billions of people to see it, making it a block buster that later some directors also tried to exploit, like Darren Aronofsky, but didn't succeed with being blessed by pope, although the movie was an equal turd with "The Passion" but was not antisemitic what popes really like in a movie.

Have you actually seen the movie?

[Fake Messiah]

Yes, unfortunately I saw the movie and since it's blessed by Pope it's not infrequent on TV. And certainly after the movie came out almost everybody that uses their brain at least a bit recognized it was antisemitic and Mel Gibson as a very psychotic person, but of course Pope didn't. It is also known that Mel's father, Hutton, is a Holocaust-denier.

But you know that Mel Gibson also is not proponent of Vatican and considers it long ago as being overrun with Jews and communists and even considers John Paul II as an Antichrist.

[Lucanus]

They shot that movie in my hometown, lol