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I think my mother may be becoming an atheist, advice?
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 (October 16, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Get a Thai takeaway and watch the Hobbit trilogy. Sage advice. Though I would go with some other choice for what to watch, you have hit upon the ecstatic truth. But if she likes Hobbit films and Thai food, then it is also the accountant's truth. "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." — David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
 RE: I think my mother may be becoming an atheist, advice?
October 16, 2015 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2015 at 4:06 pm by Alex K.)
(October 16, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:(October 16, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Get a Thai takeaway and watch the Hobbit trilogy. I'm not a well-versed Herzogian - are you saying that proposing the Hobbit Trilogy possibly communicates the idea better than merely proposing the actual film that should be watched?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
RE: I think my mother may be becoming an atheist, advice?
October 16, 2015 at 4:45 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2015 at 4:54 pm by Pyrrho.)
(October 16, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Alex K Wrote:(October 16, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Sage advice. Though I would go with some other choice for what to watch, you have hit upon the ecstatic truth. But if she likes Hobbit films and Thai food, then it is also the accountant's truth. The "accountant's truth" is the literal, exact, pedantic truth. (Think of numerical exactness and accuracy, the way you would want your accountant to keep your financial records, if you had an accountant keeping your financial records.) The "ecstatic truth" is the truth understood generally or broadly. In this instance, the idea of watching some movies with mom and having some good food with her is a good approach. (Which is what Neimenovic proposed, though Neimenovic proposed specific types of food and film.) Which is to say, that one need not press the issue of atheism, and one can do other, enjoyable things with mom. The exact films selected and the type of food selected depends upon the tastes and interests of his mother, and, to a little lesser extent, his tastes and interests. So Neimenovic proposed the ecstatic truth, even if Thai food and Hobbit films are wrong. If those are exactly right, then it is also the accountant's truth. In fact, it is still the ecstatic truth, even if his mother does not like films, and would rather go for a walk in the park. The point is, Neimenovic suggested doing something other than trying to push atheism on the mother, and do something enjoyable instead. That is the ecstatic truth. His mother should take her time, and should enjoy other things in life while she is making up her mind. With Herzog films, he strives for the ecstatic truth, rather than the accountant's truth. Which is to say, he is interested in the overall feel and impression, rather than the precise details of the film. And he is fine with violating the accountant's truth if it makes the ecstatic truth come through more clearly than it would with the accountant's truth. Good fiction often strives for the ecstatic truth, even though it is, being fiction, not the accountant's truth (as it is fiction and therefore literally false). You reveal in this yet more proof that you are really British and not German at all, given that some American has to teach you about a famous German director. No one who is paying attention believes your silly story that you are really German. "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." — David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
IMO, you take this way too seriously, Ian. There is no reason to believe that any human claims of God have any veracity whatsoever. Therefor: atheism. Really simple. No need to complicate it.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein 
Just let it happen in it's own time and in it's own way. We all get here under our own power.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Congratulations. You now have less basis to blame your genes.
 RE: I think my mother may be becoming an atheist, advice?
October 16, 2015 at 9:03 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2015 at 9:05 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 16, 2015 at 2:33 pm)IanHulett Wrote: Okay, I feel like my mom is starting to emerge to the atheist side. One time she said "I'm starting to sound like an Atheist, but I'm not an atheist. I'm a christian." This raised some questions from me. Because I noticed she's showing signs that she's coming to the atheist side. When she said this, it seemed to confirm what I've been thinking. I'm a little bit nervous though, because she claims the belief in god helped her avoid suicide. I suppose it's possible that ditching the belief in God would help her even more because knowing that SHE is the one who saved herself from suicide may be empowering to her, but then again, when I realized God doesn't exist, it devastated me... and I haven't gone through anything near as bad as she went through. hopefully she is giving up religion more and more people are and in time i believe all people will its just getting too hard to maintain and will only get more difficult so its inevitable . you should just let her take the lead and dont indoctrinate her with any ' there is no God ' nonsense .... since you really do not know for sure . respect her beliefs and dont push yours on her she is capable of thinking for herself im sure.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today
 Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John LennonThe easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain (October 16, 2015 at 3:19 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:(October 16, 2015 at 3:07 pm)Alex K Wrote: That's actually not such a bad idea! If she gets psychological problems again, she'll have support from some nonbelievers. No, but his advice is not always very subtle, and this is a situation which calls for a finer touch than "go blow Jesus out your ass" 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
 (October 16, 2015 at 5:23 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: IMO, you take this way too seriously, Ian. There is no reason to believe that any human claims of God have any veracity whatsoever. Therefor: atheism. Really simple. No need to complicate it. I think it's because he's fairly young (teens, correct?). Kids that age seem to approach just about everything as a cause they need to champion or rage against. It's kind of endearing because it's nice to see people be passionate about things, but at the same point I hope he realizes that it's not nearly as big a deal to the rest of us. It's kind of hard for a lack of belief in something to maintain that fervor. My biggest concern is her mindset if she does deconvert. Not everyone feels a sense of clarity or relief. Some people feel sad and/or angry at having swallowed and acted on lies for their existence until that point, and still others feel a sense of depression and/or loss at saying goodbye to their old life and habits, actions, even friendships that stemmed from a religion they can no longer take a part in. Given her purported problems with depression and suicide, it's imperative that Ian doesn't go into gung-ho atheist champion mode because that may backfire. He needs to play it cool, be generally supportive, and give help/resources (NOT YouTube vids... a lot of them are caustic to newbies fresh out of the cocoon, and immature besides) when asked.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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