Criticizing Islam is racist?

[MTL]

I would not be the fool who tries to tell you who to trust and who not to trust. But for me I will not give credibility to people who follow a book that permits them to lie. People will lie anyway, but to worship a god that sanctions lying takes it to a whole nother level.

There is even a word for lying about one's faith: Taqiyya.. Of course individual Muslims are left to interpret what it means to be compelled But it is clear lying is permitted.

yes, Rhonda, I agree.

I dislike Islam and Christianity equally, but I must admit that nowhere in Christianity are you given "permission" to lie, under any circumstances.  Christians would be cast to the lions rather than lie about their devotion to Christ just to save their own skins, because their trust in God to save them, either in this life or in the next, should be demonstrated. 

But Taqiyya tacitly permits deceit in Islam....and that opens up a whole nother can of worms.

I get tired of repeating that I believe there are decent, moderate people in every religion.

What I am saying is that those decent, moderate people are basically cherry-picking their way through a religion that is actually quite violent and oppressive, and a religion that screams "RACIST!" if you dare point it out.

Cherry-picking is not okay.

I would never belong to a religion,
but if I was going to convert to Islam,
I'd be an extremist...because that's the only version of Islam that I really think honestly reflects what Islam is.

I grew up around "moderate" Christians...and when push came to shove,
many of them where not so very moderate, at all.

I despise Wesboro Baptist Church...but I give them credit for at least being consistent
in their criticism of Kim Davis' hypocrisy.

Same with Al Qaeda, who recently distanced themselves from ISIL:
Al Qaeda might be extremist nutjobs...but their extreme take on Islam seems at least more sincere
than the flagrantly-hypocritical, blatant thuggery of ISIL, who abduct and sell girls into sexual slavery.

If you are a god-fearing person and you are also a decent person,
then what I am saying is shit or get off the pot:

Either become a Deist or pick a religion that is at least more peaceful at its core, if you must pick one at all.

to me, moderate muslims and christians might be nice people, but they are kidding themselves.

and the unconscionable part is that they belong to religions that seek (unlike Judaism) to recruit...

...and pass off their unsubstantiated theories about god as if they are undisputed truths, to do so

...and then call me a bigot because I won't refrain for condemning their choice to be part of that religion,
as if their cherry-picking is actually laudable behavior.

I'm not calling them terrorists.

I have no issue with their race.

I am saying: shit or get off the pot. Own the fact that you want to belong to an evil religion, but not be associated with that evil
...and only for the not-very-good reason that you cherry-picked your way through the holy writ.

Own the fact that if your devotion to God was really sincere,
you'd question how legitimate that holy writ must be,
if it is so open to misinterpretation and abuse.

A truly Divine book would be impossible to misinterpret.

I would personally look in the mirror and ask myself if I can, in all honesty, believe this religion really serves God
...and do I owe it to my God to abandon this evil religion;

...or, if this religion DOES serve God...is this God worth serving?

I would ask myself if it is possible that perhaps I am merely adhering to this religion for the sake of my own comfort level?

Do I belong to the religion, for the purpose of serving God? or for the purpose of serving the Religion? (Or more truly, my own interests?)

And god-fearing people who think they can have the penny and the bun should not be able to duck out of the responsibility that goes with consenting to be part of a religion that does that.

[abaris]

I would never belong to a religion,
but if I was going to convert to Islam,
I'd be an extremist...because that's the only version of Islam that I really think honestly reflects what Islam is.

Which is quite telling. Pity, I really had a high opinion of you.

It also reflects a perfect ignorance of what Islam was in the Middle Ages and what it provided to our western civilisation. Hint, we wouldn't even know the number zero and still go by Galen's teachings when it comes to medicine. But that's perfectly all right, since Islam always was and still is the most despicable religion of all.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'd much rather moderation in any belief be encouraged, even if that means the believers are being less-than-honest by cherry-picking.

How else do you expect to defang a faith?

[paulpablo]

I would never belong to a religion,
but if I was going to convert to Islam,
I'd be an extremist...because that's the only version of Islam that I really think honestly reflects what Islam is.

Which is quite telling. Pity, I really had a high opinion of you.

It also reflects a perfect ignorance of what Islam was in the Middle Ages and what it provided to our western civilisation. Hint, we wouldn't even know the number zero and still go by Galen's teachings when it comes to medicine. But that's perfectly all right, since Islam always was and still is the most despicable religion of all.

There's no information about the number zero or medicine within the quran or hadith but there is information on when to beat your wife, when to crucify people, when to cut off people's limbs, when to stone a woman to death or keep her imprisoned until she dies and how great it is to die fighting for the sake of Allah.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

This seems to come up if you ever criticize Islam.

No, it comes up whenever you make no distinction between Islam and Muslim. And the racist part, if point one is checked, is merely semantics. It's taking the semantic backdoor to weasel out of one's bigotry to say, they're not a race.

Racist may be the wrong word, but it certainly fits the underlying emotions.

A white guy started Islam so if a white guy criticizes Islam is he being racist?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Am I the only one that noticed this thread is over a year old?

It's just another rotten zombie.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The problem with moderate Muslims is they are bluffers for fundamentalism.

Based on what? I wish you all would insert jew instead of muslim and see if the shoe fits you. If you want it to fit.

And let's not revisit that weasel bullshit of muslims not being a race. The sentiment is what counts.

If muslims are a race then muslims must be Indonesians since Indonesia is the most populous muslim country.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten...s-map.html

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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Deism is illogical though. If you are open to God existing, you should be open to the idea that he sent guidance and that the best creation are Guides. That he united their cause in form of religion, and the chosen ones become the uniting flag of the friends of God.  If you believe in God, why would he not communicate to humanity?

Oh, I disagree.

I think that if you must believe in God at all,
Deism is the most logical approach when you consider how much harm is done in the name of religion.

Just because Deism scorns the nonsense that most religions thus far CLAIM is the guidance God has sent,

(because they all obviously disagree...amongst having countless other flaws, as well),

does not automatically mean that a Deist would necessarily prohibit the possibility
that God might someday send guidance to mankind;

For example, a Deist might be overjoyed to see God visibly descended on a cloud tomorrow,
and all of humanity...even the deaf and blind and braindead...were simultaneously aware of it,
and all of humanity received His message at once,
with no dispute whatsoever on the meaning of it,
and for once it wasn't complicated or confusing, but utterly, utterly clear, at a glance, even to a child.

But in any event, the Deist isn't counting on such an event
and won't lose any sleep over it.


To you, it seems illogical that God would create us, then not send guidance.

To me, I don't see why not.

I think we could very well just be a petri dish culture,
in a lab full of other petri dish cultures that He is monitoring, that's all.

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Who knows what God is thinking?
I certainly don't claim to know,
and I doubt anyone else does, either.

God doesn't think because God doesn't exist.  Do you think Zeus exists?

[robvalue]

I think that every person who voices the opinion that "faith" is a good means to knowledge is contributing to an overall problem. I don't care what religion they're from, or even if they're just spiritual or something.

I think it's a bad belief to have, and to support. But I would never treat anyone less well because they hold such beliefs, or encourage anyone to take action other than promoting critical thinking in general.

As for Islam... I find it to be a vile religion. But no more so than Christianity. They are both about the worst I could imagine, if you base that view on what their books actually say.

Increasingly what the books say is becoming less important, and people's own cherry picking is becoming more popular. I'm all for that. Cherry pick away if it means leaving out the horrible parts of those books. I want to live in a world with nice people, and the less of that primitive dogma they ingest the better. If they decide their religion is about love to them, and this is how they act, then good for them.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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Which is quite telling. Pity, I really had a high opinion of you.

It also reflects a perfect ignorance of what Islam was in the Middle Ages and what it provided to our western civilisation. Hint, we wouldn't even know the number zero and still go by Galen's teachings when it comes to medicine. But that's perfectly all right, since Islam always was and still is the most despicable religion of all.

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There's no information about the number zero or medicine within the quran or hadith but there is information on when to beat your wife, when to crucify people, when to cut off people's limbs, when to stone a woman to death or keep her imprisoned until she dies and how great it is to die fighting for the sake of Allah.

That sounds so biblical.