Atheism as a teacher

[audiogel]

Hi i'm posting here looking for advice/support...

A member of staff in my school had posted on Facebook one of those stupid pictures saying basically "don't blame islam for Paris when Isis has killed more than 100,000 muslims in the past 2 years" and I replied  to say that I absolutely blame islam because they are doing it in the name of Islam despite the vast majority of muslims not following Islam in the same, evil  way.

The next day in the staffroom things were very frosty with a Muslim colleague because she had taken great offense to my comment. I asked her to sit down so we could debate it and she wasn't keen on hearing my point that I was blaming the religion, not the general muslim population. The way I see it, without Islam, ISIS would not be acting in the name of it. I refuse to feel bad that someone has taken offense to me criticising their religion and I am concerned I am being made to look xenophobic or racist. I explained I love humans despite what religion they choose to follow, but I abhor all religions and don't see a place for it in modern society.

I feel like because her opinion of religion is positive it is as though hers is right and more important and mine is wrong. I know I can't get in trouble for having an opinion just because it differs from that of someone else, but I need something to come back with to explain my argument in case the need arises as I'm not great at getting my point across as I can be very matter-of-fact. In a school setting I don't want to look unprofessional, but she added me on Facebook.

Thanks for your support.

[The Grand Nudger]

Borrowed ladders, undeserved respect, and mis-perceptual offense.  You don't need to explain anything, let it go. If someone wants to think you're xenophobic or racist, because they disagree with your comments about religion et al, or their religion specifically, trust me, nothing you can say will dissuade them.

[audiogel]

Borrowed ladders, undeserved respect, and mis-perceptual offense.  You don't need to explain anything, let it go.  If someone wants to think you're xenophobic or racist, because they disagree with your comments about religion et al, or their religion specifically, trust me, nothing you can say will dissuade them.

I'm thinking more if I get dragged into the office to explain my actions

[Tiberius]

The problem is, you are being an ass and not realizing it.

The vast majority of Muslims are not violent. These Muslims claim to follow Islam. Whether they follow Islam to the letter or not is irrelevant; hardly any religious person follows their religion literally.

So when you blame Islam for the actions of ISIS, regular Muslims are going to take offense, and rightly so, because to them, Islam does not teach the kind of things that ISIS is doing. That should be obvious to you based on the fact that most Muslims are not violent; there is clearly something else at work, and that is fundamentalism, fanaticism, and extremism. If you want to blame something, blame those things. They have the power to corrupt any religion, any belief system, not just Islam.

Honestly, there's not a very good analogy for atheists, because we don't have religious beliefs, but try this one. It's like when people blame atheists for the atrocities that Mao committed, because Mao's policies were atheistic and anti-religious. Of course, nothing in atheism states that we should ban religion or arrest religious people. Rather, it's the extremism of Mao that caused those events.

Now imagine your atheist beliefs are so important to you, you live your life by them, make decisions based on them, etc. You too would get offended and upset if someone told you that atheism was to blame for the killing of hundreds of people.

[Crossless2.0]

I second Tiberius's post.

And in the future, audiogel, try to remember that, though colleagues may be friends on the job and even outside of work, it is probably not wise to also have them as "friends" on social media. You never know what post or tweet might someday bite you on the ass professionally. These days, "not shitting where you eat" presents a much broader set of considerations than was true some years ago.

[The Grand Nudger]

I guess the one sticky point, is that the quran does, indeed, advocate for the death of kafir, and when you can't manage that, their treatment as second class citizens.  The radicals aren't exactly being "un-islamic".  Most people find ways to square that circle, and rightly so. Is islam to blame for the things that radical muslims do? At least in part, and when it explictly makes requests of believers, yes. To state otherwise is silly. Does this mean that all muslims will do those things, or believe that those things are righteous? No, ofc not. The offended friend is, herself, very dismissive of others religious convictions, privileging her own interpretations over those of her fellows for no discernible reason. It's hard for me to manufacture sympathy for people in that situation, personally. ISIS, for example, is as thoroughly and devoutly muslim as your offended friend, and that's something she'll probably need to come to terms with at some point. But there's no sense in stirring the pot at work in any case.

[audiogel]

The problem is, you are being an ass and not realizing it.

The vast majority of Muslims are not violent. These Muslims claim to follow Islam. Whether they follow Islam to the letter or not is irrelevant; hardly any religious person follows their religion literally.

So when you blame Islam for the actions of ISIS, regular Muslims are going to take offense, and rightly so, because to them, Islam does not teach the kind of things that ISIS is doing. That should be obvious to you based on the fact that most Muslims are not violent; there is clearly something else at work, and that is fundamentalism, fanaticism, and extremism. If you want to blame something, blame those things. They have the power to corrupt any religion, any belief system, not just Islam.

Honestly, there's not a very good analogy for atheists, because we don't have religious beliefs, but try this one. It's like when people blame atheists for the atrocities that Mao committed, because Mao's policies were atheistic and anti-religious. Of course, nothing in atheism states that we should ban religion or arrest religious people. Rather, it's the extremism of Mao that caused those events.

Now imagine your atheist beliefs are so important to you, you live your life by them, make decisions based on them, etc. You too would get offended and upset if someone told you that atheism was to blame for the killing of hundreds of people.

Thank you for the clarity, I realise I am coming across as an arse and that is what I was looking to avoid - like I say i'm not very good at getting my point across without sounding like one. I struggle to come to terms with the fact that Muslims can take offense with me blaming Islam for Isis; as far as I can see without Islam there would be no Isis. I feel that taking offense is the instant DEfence for any religious person who encounters someone who has contrasting opinions to theirs. It doesn't help that religious texts are so open to interpretation so, without them there would be no misinterpretation.

I honestly feel that I wouldn't be offended if someone said that atheism was to blame for killing people if it could be backed up with evidence.

[The Grand Nudger]

There would likely be some other splinter group, all other things being equal, the only difference being a world without Islam.  It wouldn't be ISIS, because ISIS -does- depend on islam, but I'm sure those people could find reasons aplenty for whatever it is they wanted to do.

[audiogel]

I guess the one sticky point, is that the quran does, indeed, advocate for the death of kafir, and when you can't manage that, their treatment as second class citizens.  The radicals aren't exactly being "un-islamic".  Most people find ways to square that circle, and rightly so.  Is islam to blame for the things that radical muslims do?  At least in part, and when it explictly makes requests of believers, yes.  To state otherwise is silly.  Does this mean that all muslims will do those things, or believe that those things are righteous?  No, ofc not.  The offended friend is, herself, very dismissive of others religious convictions, privileging her own interpretations over those of her fellows for no discernible reason.  It's hard for me to manufacture sympathy for people in that situation, personally.  ISIS, for example, is as thoroughly and devoutly muslim as your offended friend, and that's something she'll probably need to come to terms with at some point.  But there's no sense in stirring the pot at work in any case.

One of my bigges problems is that I have never read the Koran and perhaps I should because she insists that it explicitly states that killing one person would be like killing the whole world, but then I read things to the contrary which I told her and she said those parts only refer to specific battles during the times of its writing.

[The Grand Nudger]

Like the bible, it's a big book that says alot of things.  Not all of the things it says agree.  That's ignoring the ability of the reader to interpret.  Ad that in, and it;s possible that no two lines agree with one another, depending on who you ask.  There's no reason to read the quran.  Just apologize for offending your friend, if you feel the need, and let it go....seriously, lol.  You don;t want to pursue a career in education with the "bigot" label hovering over your head, however unjustly it may have been assigned.   Welcome to the world of the religious, where you have to shut your face and know your place.