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(December 2, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Kingpin Wrote: As should all who are skeptic. But my point is you are the one doing the prompting, not in any response to anyone and I'm honestly curious why. You post lots of topics about this, demanding proof and evidence without there being an argument in the first place. To me it comes across that you either secretly want to believe or you want to continue to re hash your own arguments against it to further convince yourself. You see when someone is convinced of something they no longer feel the need to discuss its validity.
I could be wrong, just my observation, you can ignore it.
I hold christianity to a higher standard since i used to be a christian (for a extreme short amount of time). All i need is evidence to believe. I didn't choose to be atheist it's just if you read the bible in whole none of it makes any logical since what so ever.
^ Really?
Not sure how that works. Would that be equivalent of me saying I didn't choose to be Christian, but when I read the Bible it all just made sense?
I understand the need for evidence to believe, but I've said it many times before, I think for some there is just no amount of evidence that a modern skeptic couldn't simply explain away.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
(November 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm)dyresand Wrote: In 2 paragraphs or less convince me why i should be christian.
Don't ask us. Ask the Holy Spirit to grant you faith and if your request is sincere you will find what you seek.
Oh Vodka, holiest of Spirits, I beseech thee to come into my life, to fill my body with your holiness, especially after long, stressful days.
And, if you do as I ask, I shall dedicate myself to your service and meditate upon the spirit at least once a day, perhaps twice, if the day does sucketh.
(November 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm)dyresand Wrote: In 2 paragraphs or less convince me why i should be christian.
Don't ask us. Ask the Holy Spirit to grant you faith and if your request is sincere you will find what you seek.
Not to point out the obvious, but how could we possibly be sincere asking a being we find no rational reason (evidence, valid/sound logic, etc) to believe exists?
It would be like a Hindu asking you to sincerely ask the Hindu god to respond to your question. Could you possibly be sincere in that case?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
You are like the George W Bush of Atheism.. every time you have anything to say their is a very large chance that it's nonsensical or just wrong. I remember cringing everytime the news would have him on, in hopes he would not flub up something he said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM
Your fellow atheist MUST feel the same way..
Let's look at what you said here.
you were going by the 'logic' I provided you, and you think
A. God would not exist.
... Do you see a problem with any of that yet?
I did not provide logical material that suggests God does not exist. So your use of the term "Following your logic" is a non sequitur. (a fallacy in your basic logic) do you not see that? If you do then why say "following your logic?" if you don't then I would not use the term logic until you understood it better.
B. God does not 'care' about you.
IDK maybe this makes sense to people of your... generation, cultural background or mind set but how does telling you, you've been given the freedom not to persue God, and or if you don't have a reason or would like one you are free to ask God for one = "God does not care about you?"
To me, the only way you can come to your conclusion of 'logic' is if one simply did not understand the term, but again how does one not understand any phrase or term if they have access to a computer and or even a dictionary?
If you want to follow 'logic' ask yourself why do your peers NOT help or correct you when you fall/mess up? why hasn't someone taken you under their wing to help you develop your beliefs and stances? Why does someone who represents the a God who "does not give a shit about you" trying to help you with basic fundamental logic?
So this what it comes down to name calling very childish but you know what i expect it. So i am the George Bush of Atheists
you do realize all i ask for is proof convincing proof that is all i ask for.
It's funny how the only thing you seem to properly respond to is you tube videos and memes.
Example:
Your not looking for proof. You are wanting to be courted. Youre wanting in this thread, for the Christians on this web site to chase after you, so I can only imagine that this is true for God as well. Meaning you don't want proof of God, because I have told you many many times where to find it. You want to manipulate God in producing 'favors/magic tricks' for you before you 'swear allegiance.' If I can see through your attempt at manipulation, then how much more clearly do you think God can see through your little game?
(November 30, 2015 at 7:59 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Unless you're a Christian, you can never know the true taste of Jesus' flesh and blood!
He comes in gluton free too!
Also cheese and onion, smoky bacon and Marmite.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(December 2, 2015 at 12:20 pm)dyresand Wrote: I hold christianity to a higher standard since i used to be a christian (for a extreme short amount of time). All i need is evidence to believe. I didn't choose to be atheist it's just if you read the bible in whole none of it makes any logical since what so ever.
^ Really?
Not sure how that works. Would that be equivalent of me saying I didn't choose to be Christian, but when I read the Bible it all just made sense?
I understand the need for evidence to believe, but I've said it many times before, I think for some there is just no amount of evidence that a modern skeptic couldn't simply explain away.
No amount of bad evidence, for sure. And that is all that has been presented by you, and every other Christian I've ever heard present their case.
Ancient texts, flawed philosophical arguments, anecdotal personal experiences are not convincing because they are bad evidence.
Atheism is not a choice. It is the result of correctly applied skepticism.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
(December 2, 2015 at 12:41 pm)Kingpin Wrote: ^ Really?
Not sure how that works. Would that be equivalent of me saying I didn't choose to be Christian, but when I read the Bible it all just made sense?
I understand the need for evidence to believe, but I've said it many times before, I think for some there is just no amount of evidence that a modern skeptic couldn't simply explain away.
No amount of bad evidence, for sure. And that is all that has been presented by you, and every other Christian I've ever heard present their case.
Ancient texts, flawed philosophical arguments, anecdotal personal experiences are not convincing because they are bad evidence.
Atheism is not a choice. It is the result of correctly applied skepticism.
I think he is referring to the type of people who say they would not believe in God even if He appeared before them and performed miracles, etc. He is correct. I have seen people here say that.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
December 3, 2015 at 10:14 am (This post was last modified: December 3, 2015 at 10:20 am by robvalue.)
That's not a fair representation, as I've explained before. A one-off experience leaving no other evidence would be bad evidence, yes. A regular experience, by multiple people, which anyone could come join and see for themselves, would be good evidence.
It's not our fault that god decides to just visit a few people at a time, and then refuses to show himself to everyone so we can see him and talk to him. It appears he actually wants his appearances to be bad evidence. If he's not capable of providing as good evidence for his existence as I am of mine, then he's either incredibly feeble or he's deliberately hiding himself.
If he's hiding, then that's entirely his problem. If he showed himself to everyone, we'd know he exists. Why this should be a problem, I don't know. It doesn't mean we would have to worship him. He seems hell bent on getting us to believe he exists by every way possible except actually just showing us some evidence. So all we get are anecdotes, which objectively are no use as evidence.
If this is meant to be some sort of test, then it's an idiotic test and I want no part in it. I have no reason to want to disbelieve, I'd be very interested in a new discovery.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
