Intelligent Design

[robvalue]

You would call that a design, I wouldn't. I'd call it an outcome.

More interesting would be an example of something you don't say is designed. You said not everything is designed.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

You would call that a design, I wouldn't. I'd call it an outcome.

More interesting would be an example of something you don't say is designed. You said not everything is designed.

An outcome which resembles a design. So basically a design.
The whole point of my argument was to show that our world was designed. If our world is designed and everything in it what makes you think there is an example for something that is not designed in our world?
And why are you asking for something that is not designed in our world? Does this mean you have accepted my example of instances of design in our world?

[robvalue]

I'm going to have to give up I think. I just can't follow your use of language. If "looks designed" and "designed" mean the same thing, then I don't even know what your point is. Anything can "look designed" to any particular person. If you're saying reality looks designed to you, then I can't argue with that.

Yes, we design things. We come up with an idea, and shape things to that idea.

[downbeatplumb]

@robvalue,

I thought about how you thought that a design can be achieved by random events is absurd.
Well it's not,

Consider the word "that".
Now consider a random event in which x number of 4 letter words is formed using random unrepeating letters, where each word is different from the words that were previously formed. After some x number you times you will get the word - "that".
See? A design achieved by random events.

Design is not what you have shown. What you have shown is you seeing words in random letters, that we can see words is a result of our brains interpreting the arrangement that way, not there being a design in the arrangement, you have the entire thing exactly the wrong way round.

[robvalue]

Well put. Is it a design because "that" happens to be a word? Would it not be one if it wasn't?

If design is entirely subjective, then it's a rather meaningless criteria.

But Pool means something different to us by design; what exactly he means I'm still not sure. That's why I want an example of something that's not designed.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

I'm going to have to give up I think. I just can't follow your use of language. If "looks designed" and "designed" mean the same thing, then I don't even know what your point is. Anything can "look designed" to any particular person.

Yes, we design things. We come up with an idea, and shape things to that idea.

I don't understand. Why do you think that, "that" achieved from a set of random events doesn't resemble a design?

The "that" from the dictionary is intelligent design.
The "that" formed from random events is design formed by random events.

I'm also quite surprised how people can't find examples of design in our world.
2 Hydrogen atom and 1 oxygen atom forms water.
2 and 1 are the constraints, imposed rules if you will - which imply a design.
Water can't be formed from 3 hydrogen atom and 1 oxygen atom. Why? Because water is designed to be H2O.
Design. Design. Design. Why? Because Constraints. Constraints. Constraints.
Why is a statue a design? Because it has constraints. Constraints such as the shape,size,length,breadth of the nose, mouth etc.
A set of rules applied to anything would result in a design.
Wow I just came across a thought. Just now, as I was typing.

An intelligent design would mean an imposition of rules to a system by an intelligent being. How was the intelligent being designed? Through a bunch of constraints. And who formed these constraints - puts you in a loop.
However, a design achieved by random events wouldn't mean an imposition of rules to achieve the design, so an agent to impose the rules is not required.

Haha. I get it now. The constraints such as physical laws of our universe were formed by random events. So if there are more worlds out there their designs would be different which means their constraints would be different. Oh shit, wait a sec, that would also mean that a system with no constraints can be produced by a set of random events, which would then mean there maybe Gods in other worlds. Wait so what happens when a being with no constraints come to a world with constraints?
Hmm, a system with constraints would be "that" and one without it would be "zdlkj". If "zdlkj" came into "that" like "tzdlkjhat" then the system with constraints would no longer have any design or in other words cease to exist. What am I thinking? I need to get some sleep, it's late.
Okay ignore everything I said. I'm sleep and I'm talking thinking that don't makes sense, even to me..

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

@robvalue,

I thought about how you thought that a design can be achieved by random events is absurd.
Well it's not,

Consider the word "that".
Now consider a random event in which x number of 4 letter words is formed using random unrepeating letters, where each word is different from the words that were previously formed. After some x number you times you will get the word - "that".
See? A design achieved by random events.

Design is not what you have shown. What you have shown is you seeing words in random letters, that we can see words is a result of our brains interpreting the arrangement that way, not there being a design in the arrangement, you have the entire thing exactly the wrong way round.

Wrong wrong. I'm not saying "that" achieved by random events have a design. I'm saying that it resembles a design.

[downbeatplumb]

Design is not what you have shown. What you have shown is you seeing words in random letters, that we can see words is a result of our brains interpreting the arrangement that way, not there being a design in the arrangement, you have the entire thing exactly the wrong way round.

Wrong wrong. I'm not saying "that" achieved by random events have a design. I'm saying that it resembles a design.

So?

[robvalue]

"Resembles a design" is a subjective judgement.

Anyone could theoretically design something to be like anything... if they had the power to do so. So if that's the kind of thing such a power does, it would "looks designed" to someone familiar with it, whether or not it was actually designed or just happened.

If nothing can "just happen" then we have a tautology.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

"Resembles a design" is a subjective judgement.

Nope. "alfkj" doesn't resemble a design. "boobs" resemble a design.