Rule Change (New Staff Power)

[Napoléon]

A ban is literally a click of a button, but Staff here works on quorum. That they've decided to be transparent with the new "rule" should be enough to know that they won't be abusing the power they had even before announcing it, let alone that it only takes one dissenter to shut down a ban in this case.

The problem for me is not that I think staff would abuse it. It's that on principle this new power gives staff (and I'm not saying it would be used in such a way) a way of banning anyone the staff likes even when a user hasn't broken any rules.

It just seems unnecessary. When we banned frodo for instance we did essentially what the OP insinuates would be reason for such a ban anyway. But why ban with this 'nuclear option' when you can simply come to the decision that constant rule skirting is in fact a violation of the rules on the first place.

Banning someone like this just opens a can of worms IMO but that's just my 2 cents.

[brewer]

Feel free to ask questions in this thread.

- Tiberius

Is this ban also open to the appeal process?

[robvalue]

If you suspect the mods will abuse their power, then any rules are irrelevant.

I personally don't at all think they will abuse it, given our current staff. I'm rather surprised anyone does think that. But I appreciate it's a matter of opinion.

As has been noted, they don't have to give any reason at all so technically this is no new power.

[Cyberman]

Well, I can't say I agree with that. I don't think it's stupid, it's addressing willful saboteurs. If we saw it being applied unfairly, I'm sure it would drive people away. But I've been here during a period before where the atmosphere was so bad, it felt like no one wanted to be here. That is far more likely to drive people away, IMO.

Like Ignor says, while trying to locate exactly how they have broken the rules while the person deliberately flaunts them as close to the knuckle as possible, the damage has been done already. It's kind of like saying, "Look, it's clear you aren't interested in being part of the community. You're here to disrupt it. Cut it out."

Say what you like, but it won't take long for staff to abuse this new feature and eventually some users will be driven away. Guaranteed, we just play the waiting game for now.

You know what? I've had it with being maligned just for doing this job. If this is going to be the way people react to a Staff option that will never affect them nor which Staff hope will ever need to use except in the most extreme of situations (which I specifically pointed out to Tibs during discussions), then I fucking quit.

[Napoléon]

As has been noted, they don't have to give any reason at all so technically this is no new power.

Must have genuinely missed that part of the rules when I was on staff.

Pretty sure you can't ban someone for any old reason, it has to be a rule violation of some kind.

But again, my personal contention isn't anything to do with whether I think staff would ban anyone willy nilly, nor would I care too much if they did.

[thesummerqueen]

Don't quit. When you're pissing people off, it means you're either doing something really wrong, or really right.

In this case, it's right.

[robvalue]

As has been noted, they don't have to give any reason at all so technically this is no new power.

Must have genuinely missed that part of the rules when I was on staff.

Pretty sure you can't ban someone for any old reason, it has to be a rule violation of some kind.

But again, my personal contention isn't anything to do with whether I think staff would ban anyone willy nilly, nor would I care too much if they did.

Well, if the staff is corrupt, no one but the staff gets to see the deliberation. So if they all just say "ban them" and have no discussion and follow no rules, it looks the same from our end.

You're saying the staff will abuse their power while saying it was impossible to abuse power before.

I agree with Stimbo. If you just assume the staff are going to screw up, then they can't ever win.

[Brakeman]

Say what you like, but it won't take long for staff to abuse this new feature and eventually some users will be driven away. Guaranteed, we just play the waiting game for now.

You know what? I've had it with being maligned just for doing this job. If this is going to be the way people react to a Staff option that will never affect them nor which Staff hope will ever need to use except in the most extreme of situations (which I specifically pointed out to Tibs during discussions), then I fucking quit.

Please don't go off the deep end just because a small minority whines about everything, You and the other moderators are very strongly appreciated by the majority.

[Napoléon]

Well, if the staff is corrupt, no one but the staff gets to see the deliberation. So if they all just say "ban them" and have no discussion and follow no rules, it looks the same from our end.

You're saying the staff will abuse their power while saying it was impossible to abuse power before.

Quote where I've said this. I've said the polar opposite. You even reading what I've wrote?

[Napoléon]

I agree with Stimbo. If you just assume the staff are going to screw up, then they can't ever win.

Wow, that is not at all what I've said, what a misrepresentation.