"ISIS is not Islamic

[Catholic_Lady]

"They" is at least a broad a brush as the one you're decrying. I am one who doesn't deserve the painting with it.

By "they" I was referring only to the couple of people who said those things.

[Cyberman]

I get that. It was for the folks playing along at home, more than anything. Sorry, I should have made myself more clear.

[Gormo]

Honesty, how is this issue not resolved satisfactorily when you look at the example of the founder of Islam? How?!

Rape, pillage, slaughter. A truly amoral individual who routinely procured "revelations" in order to satisfy his perverse fetishes.

What is ISIS doing that Mohammed did not?

[robvalue]

Exactly. This is obvious to anyone not emotionally invested in the cult. Or at least it should be, to anyone who has done even a little research. My father in law asked me, "How can ISIS do such terrible things based on a religion of peace?" He had no idea that they are just doing pretty much what their religious texts say. Way more so than any moderate.

The current pandering to Islam campaign paints Islam as this perfect little cute cherub of a religion that these nasty men have corrupted. Hardly. The radical part is ignoring the religion, at least the parts which stop it being part of a secular society.

[WinterHold]

ISIS smells like a wahhabi fella. Not like Islam.
It's the inevitable conclusion of believing in the sects.

This is all getting a bit ridiculous. Islam is not homogeneous, just like Christianity. You can no more claim that Wahhabism isn't Islamic than a Baptist can claim Catholicism isn't Christian. You yourself just indicated that we're discussing a difference in interpretation, referring to you asking for us to consider how jihad is interpreted. You may disagree with the interpretation, but saying it's not Islamic is silly.

It is proved that many aren't Islamic for sure, since they negate the basic pillars of Islam.

Robvalue

I didn't get what you mean

Rhythm 

I know Atlas, I know..ISIS isn't islamic and it's all americas fault.  You're one bad case of indigestion away from screaming death to america...as far as I can tell....and you wonder why I have trouble understanding -why- you don't agree with ISIS? 

Don't read the edges of my posts only (not respecting my post enough to read it from the first letter to the last). 
I'm addressing the mistake of both sides.

Stimbo

To borrow from Sam Harris, the problems with Islamic Fundamentalism are to do with the fundamentals of Islam. If you truly have a religion of peace, such as Jainism, then its fundamentals will also be those of peace.

How is self defense considered violence ? Islam is a balanced faith, it guides to peace, but it also gives you the ability to fight back and defend yourself. 

But the way of Islam is capable of bringing peace sooner, and make it last longer, with everybody happy.

MrNoMoerePropaganda

Some do believe in it. Many people around here treasure Abdul Wahhab as being the example of "perfect Islamic belief".
The jihadits in mane cases, come from this background; abroad it is called "Salafism", Salafies are just Wahhabies holding a different title.

Abdul Wahhab is very respected between Jihadists. 

Catholic_Lady

Appreciated, CL. Thank you for understanding the differences between me & extremists.
I do try to fight them too through my posts, though. Not that it contradicts my belief only; but what ISIS & extremist do is destructive beyond imagine, to Muslims before anybody else.

ah, the brain is known to pick up the easiest route   sometimes oppression & generalization are the easiest path. 

robvalue

Their religious texts did prevent them from many of the actions they do, rob.
Someway or another, they do what they want. And that's not so religious.

I say they're not Islamic, because I can't see how they follow the faith.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

There's zero difference between what ISIS is doing and what Moses' gang of thugs did in the Middle East according to the biblical fairy tale. And the thing is that Christians love Moses so why do they have an attitude when it comes to the ISIS thugs?

BTW, why is it that most of the ISIS thugs are recent converts to Islam? It seems that most muslims who have been generational muslims aren't interested. Of course the rich troublemakers keep the crap stirred up.

[robvalue]

Atlas: you say they're not Islamic because they don't have the same interpretation as you. They would probably say the same about you. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, I assume you've heard of it? "Muslim" is not well defined as being anything other than "follows Islam". And Islam is similarly not well defined. It's just the name of a religion, and there are no rules as to what people can and can't interpret from a religion.

[ReptilianPeon]

AtlasS33, I don't know if Jihadists take a break from fighting to read Kitab al-Quran or something like that. Most of them, especially in Africa, can't even read. They are simply brainwashed by those in control. Maybe Salafis are people that are too stupid to realize that they are actually Wahaabis.

But, remember, Abdul Wahaab wanted to go back to the time of the Salaf. If Salafis are doing as the Salaf did (as they themselves claim), then what does that say about Muhammad? That can't be good news. Or were the Salaf corrupted too?

[marssims]

What confuses is not the definition of Islam. They'll always be people who follow it one way and those who follow it another. I'm confused how so many young people hold strong beliefs on it. Is it lack of education?

I always thought that every new generation would become more and more agnostic. But it seems it's going the other way round in the Muslim community.

What is it Islam has that other religions don't? In the UK, I think it would be a serious struggle to find more young Christians that agnostics in the street.

[WinterHold]

Atlas: you say they're not Islamic because they don't have the same interpretation as you. They would probably say the same about you. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, I assume you've heard of it? "Muslim" is not well defined as being anything other than "follows Islam". And Islam is similarly not well defined. It's just the name of a religion, and there are no rules as to what people can and can't interpret from a religion.

That's where Arabic plays its role; the language is strong & bald, very clear.
The problem is not for discussion, reasoning or reconsideration : they are ignoring that faith's basic pillar so bad, that nobody can call them "Muslims".

They lie and they know it. 

Muslim is clearly well defined, and verses that prohibit what they do is so obvious, that they avoid discussing it, and simply try to kill who says it. 

Tell me how this verse -for example- yields different interpretations ?

(Sura 4 Verse 90 )   Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they isolated themselves and did not fight you and offered you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

Tell me rob, how would anybody come up with contradicting interpretations after such a verse ?
To cheat it up, they use the Hadith.

How would it be a problem of interpretation only ? it's rather a problem of "ignoring some of the book, and believing another".

It's like Charlie Sheen's winning song :





This is exactly what is happening with Islam now. Somebody would re-arrange stuff to produce violence, using the faith as blanked for their own corrupted acts.