Should Gender Stereotypes be challenged?

[*Deidre*]

Have always been attracted to, and dated men who physically are strong, muscular, etc. My fiance is muscular and exhibits strength. This could be because I'm shallow?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Can you make your fucking point already please? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm not exactly making a point. I'm asking for opinions from people that are better than me to get a broader perspective in a subject many people believe for me to have a rather shallow perspective. I'm also trying my best to make this discussion as civil as possible, just so you know.

[Longhorn]

Can you make your fucking point already please? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm not exactly making a point. I'm asking for opinions from people that are better than me to get a broader perspective in a subject many people believe for me to have a rather shallow perspective. I'm also trying my best to make this discussion as civil as possible, just so you know.

.____.

What are you trying to say exactly, posting those links and asking me if I'm sticking to my philosophy? How are any of them relevant to the topic? Why did you quote Ben in response to my question?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Have always been attracted to, and dated men who physically are strong, muscular, etc. My fiance is muscular and exhibits strength. This could be because I'm shallow?

Shallow? No.
Only makes you human.

[Longhorn]

Have always been attracted to, and dated men who physically are strong, muscular, etc. My fiance is muscular and exhibits strength. This could be because I'm shallow?

I wouldn't say you're shallow. That's just what works for you

Otoh I'm inexplicably attracted to 'emasculated' and oftentimes androgynous men. I don't know what that makes me .-.

[abaris]

I'm always attracted to intelligent, strong (not physically) women. What does that say about me? All these It girls types do nothing for me and what's considered bombshell by the mainstream, just doesn't interest me. I see they're beautiful, going by todays standards, but they attract me in the same way as a stone statue. Not at all.

[*Deidre*]

Think some of this can just be about plain ole chemistry. I'm petite in stature, and have been told I'm feminine, so 'alpha' types tend to be attracted to me. But, my fiance is somewhat of a nerd, too...I haven't really ever been attracted to mere outward hotness. Not really a fan of the terms alpha and beta, because they are so restrictive.

Now there is such a thing as female nature and male nature...men and women do have innate differences beyond just outward appearances, but not all women or men respond in the exact same way to different things that occur in their lives, simply because of their gender. Environment, culture, nature, etc all make us who we 'are,' IMO.

[paulpablo]

I'll break down my answer.

The definition of challenge in this context is, I assume, to dispute the validity of.   A stereotype is by definition an oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.

So I'd say by definition I'd say you're already disputing the validity of these characteristics, job roles and so on that are associated with certain genders by saying they are stereotypes. You're already saying they are over simplified. 

It's basically like asking should you dispute the validity of something that is wrong?

On the other hand sometimes people phrase things wrongly but it's just generally understood what they mean and therefore I don't think it is necessary to dispute what they mean.

Like if I say men are faster runners than women, I mean on average, and I mean the fastest man is faster than the fastest woman and so on, I don't literally mean all men, even the ones who are on their death bed, are faster than a woman who is a sprinter.

[Clueless Morgan]

Yes, gender stereotypes should be challenged.

Personality traits —
For example, women are often expected to be passive, loving and caring, while men are usually expected to be aggressive, protective and dominant.

I could make a case for myself qualifying as much in the "male" personality traits as the "female" personality traits.  It's entirely situational as to when I aggressively defend something and when I'm passive.

Domestic behaviors —
For example, caring for children is often considered best done by women because of their caring feminine nature, while household repairs are often considered best done by men because of their masculine trait such as strength.

I do the majority of my own household repairs and improvements simply because there's no one else around to do them - and they can be fuckin' fun and rewarding.  I also do all my own cooking and cleaning for the exact same reason.  If I had a live-in partner and I had to do all the domestic shit like cooking, cleaning and laundry, it would not be but a matter of weeks before I went on strike and refused to do any of it until he started pitching in.

Occupations —
For example, most nurses and secretaries are usually women, and most construction workers and engineers are usually men.

True, but not necessary.  I think working construction would be fun (and would be a valuable thing for me professionally); I just wouldn't personally want to do it for a living.  But there are some women who might.

Physical appearance —
For example, women are usually cute, graceful and lovable while men are to be tall, broad-shouldered and have a strong pose.

I, myself, am tall (for a woman) and broad-shouldered. So I guess that makes me not stereotypically female or feminine?

Personality traits —

For example, women are often expected to be passive, loving and caring, while men are usually expected to be aggressive, protective and dominant.

The reason women are inherently passive is because of their relative physical weakness when compared with men, in an world without laws a women being blunt to a man will usually end bad.

That is ENTIRELY dependent on the man in question.  Not all men, even in aggressively patriarchal societies, are blithering assholes who will beat or rape a woman for the slightest cultural infraction.

And I also take issue with the statement that women are "inherently passive." We may go about getting what we want differently than men might, but that doesn't make us "inherently passive."

Anyway, this was on an episode of SGU recently:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index...le-brains/

Male and Female Brains

The problem with trying to argue that men and women are the same, or that race is just a social construct with no biological reality, is that such absolute positions are difficult to rectify with our common experience. This can lead to rejection by some of the underlying point because it sounds like political correctness rather than a scientific conclusion.

A better approach is to ask several more specific questions. The first is, are there objective categorical differences between two or among three or more alleged groups? A categorical difference is a characteristic that is present in all of one group and none of the other, without any overlap. You can also ask, how frequent are exceptions to apparent categorical differences?
...
They [the researchers] found that the differences [between male and female brains] were statistical, and not categorical. If you look at any one region or pathway in the brain, there were statistical differences between male and female. However, there was a tremendous amount of overlap. Further, as with height, knowing a person’s sex does not allow you to predict any one trait.

[Anomalocaris]

I think gender stereotypes are so obsurd that it actually wastes time and effort to avoid challenging them.

They are like traffic cones placed for no reason across the middle of a perfectly good road. It takes more time and work to swerve around them then to run them over.

So I can't be bothered with not challenging them.