Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine

[KevinM1]

From a meta perspective, I find it both odd and amusing that Christians regularly start threads like this and the ones about NDE fueled atheist conversions as though they're somehow going to sway us (back) over to god.  "Let's use people who were once like them, or people they otherwise support to weaken their resolve!"  But, the thing is, actual skeptics aren't swayed by anecdotes.  Testimony, which is what religion relies on to spread the power/glory/grace/goodness/whatever of god doesn't work on us.  We need data.  We need things that can be measured and tested.  Anything else is a waste of time, especially when, in the case of the NDEs, things can either be explained by a dozen or more mundane causes or by the person simply being a liar.

In this case, a gay Catholic is okay with celibacy.  Who fucking cares?  He's not the spokesman for the nonexistent gay hive mind.  I mean, yeah, cool story, bro, but it doesn't really matter to me that this guy chose celibacy.  I'm not Catholic and his opinion doesn't mean much in a society that largely is for gay marriage, adoption, etc.

Translation:

"True scots...er...atheists won't be swayed by these stories of former atheists who have reached alternative conclusions. Those atheists who converted were pansies - everyone of them. Not "actual atheists" like those of us real, manly atheists who are still here. No, sirree."

Uh, no.  I meant exactly what I said.  One can be an atheist without being a skeptic, for a variety of reasons.  However, since the majority of us here are skeptics, everything I wrote remains true.

Try again.

[athrock]

We shouldn't be critical of homophobes, rob. They can't help it if they were born that way.

Yeah, it's true.  

So, don't be upset with the homophobe, rob. Homophobes were born that way, and we need to understand and nurture them...and let them be who they are without judgment.

Satire re: homophobia is very homophobic.  Ignorant, repulsive and ineffective.  Any phobia is a fear of something.  Homophobia is taught, it's not one of the ingrained phobias. Fear and hatred are taught by fearful and ignorant and hateful people. There are tribal, evolutionary basis for hatred, but hatred is not genetic.

Re: quote.  Give us some articles.  Show us where scientists have discovered the genetic basis for homosexuality - - no, of course I can read, and your offensive little satire piece did not say that scientists have discovered the genetic basis for homosexuality, you said homophobia, which was fucking stupid even in satire.  But to include it in the satire opens the door for an examination of scientific studies on the subject that you just want to dismiss as yucky and unchristian and disordered.  And genetic differences HAVE been found between heterosexual and homosexual males.  I can go find studies, and just might (I have them at home, unfortunately I'm at work) but since you decided to include genetics in your immature and hateful little slam, you should supply the research studies.

Google: is homophobia genetic

Results:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...%20genetic

[Mister Agenda]

Nymphadora

One question for your god, were he to dare come to me and say one fucking word to my face: Where the fuck have you been the last 44 years of my life, when you could have intervened all those times and stopped all the unnecessary suffering and abuse of not only myself, but of my loved ones as well? Showing up 44 years late to the party still makes you an asshole no matter how nice you are.

Yeah. All that. Fuck your god.

How would God have prevented all that suffering without becoming an even worse asshole than the one you had to deal with?

Is God's inability to help people without turning into a giant asshole one of those limitations that he has but regular old human beings don't?

[Mister Agenda]

He is sacrificing living his own life to its fullest; sacrificing living his life as a person EQUAL in value, equal under the LAW, to all other people in the world based on the petty, baseless rules from a really, really old book.  

This is what saddens me about religion...to see how its teachings can cause person to literally discriminate against themselves.  

This is what saddens me about atheism...to see how people who are enslaved by their own emotions, their own carnal desires, and their own limited understanding actually believe themselves to be free.

I literally know hundreds of atheists in RL, and this characterization isn't representative at all. But since your understanding is unlimited, you must be right, right?

[Joods]

If he was all that you religious people claim he is, then where is the relief from all the pain that I have been through? Where is his divine goodness and his mercy for my life? I didn't ask for all the hardships or abuse I received. I got away from it, but your god had nothing to do with my being able to escape from an abusive asshole, who should be in jail.

God is not to blame for the abuse you received, Nympha. Your ex is.

One question for your god, were he to dare come to me and say one fucking word to my face: Where the fuck have you been the last 44 years of my life, when you could have intervened all those times and stopped all the unnecessary suffering and abuse of not only myself, but of my loved ones as well? Showing up 44 years late to the party still makes you an asshole no matter how nice you are.

Yeah. All that. Fuck your god.

How would God have prevented all that suffering without becoming an even worse asshole than the one you had to deal with?

Easily if he was an all knowing, all loving and all powerful god, he could have done ANYTHING he wanted to, to stop it. But because he doesn't exist he did nothing.

[Mister Agenda]

Satire re: homophobia is very homophobic.  Ignorant, repulsive and ineffective.  Any phobia is a fear of something.  Homophobia is taught, it's not one of the ingrained phobias. Fear and hatred are taught by fearful and ignorant and hateful people. There are tribal, evolutionary basis for hatred, but hatred is not genetic.

Re: quote.  Give us some articles.  Show us where scientists have discovered the genetic basis for homosexuality - - no, of course I can read, and your offensive little satire piece did not say that scientists have discovered the genetic basis for homosexuality, you said homophobia, which was fucking stupid even in satire.  But to include it in the satire opens the door for an examination of scientific studies on the subject that you just want to dismiss as yucky and unchristian and disordered.  And genetic differences HAVE been found between heterosexual and homosexual males.  I can go find studies, and just might (I have them at home, unfortunately I'm at work) but since you decided to include genetics in your immature and hateful little slam, you should supply the research studies.

Google: is homophobia genetic

Results:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...%20genetic

Wow. You got results on a Google search. It must be true that homophobia is genetic, then. That certainly explains why there aren't any people who used to be homophobic but aren't anymore.

[athrock]

I love when Christians are condescending dicks.  It's adorable when they think they're on everyone else's level. 

These Christians lie to themselves.  They lie to themselves every day.  They're always justifying the way they feel about things.  But they're lying to themselves about why.  It's not that they think God said that gay sex is bad, therefore they go along with it.  They're more than willing to go against any number of God's laws.  They eat pork and shellfish, and then say "Well those laws don't apply to us!"  But then they also try to justify god's law by saying "Well sex is for reproduction!"  Only they don't tell couples who can't reproduce they can't get married.  A couple in their 70's are perfectly okay getting married.  A couple that don't want children, and go out of their way to make sure that they don't get pregnant, as long as they aren't using contraception, are okay too.  No problem with them.  They're not having sex for reproduction either.  But they go against Gay people.  Many of them put gay people through hell to try to 'save' them.  I've known too many kids who've went through reparation therapy.   People who are trying to 'fix' what's not broken.   Then they have the audacity to consider themselves good. 

It's such contrived bullshit.  Hatred disguised as love.  Then they turn around and try to get everyone to embrace that hatred.  Because they're so filled with hate that they can't understand why others don't hate the way they do.  They're pathetic and small.  Mere maggots crawling upon the earth.  Lower than dirt.  They lack the braincells to qualify for what one would call a decent human being.  They lack any understanding of what compassion truly is.  It would be sad, if it weren't so pathetic.

The dietary aspects of the Mosaic Law don't apply. It's YOUR problem if you don't understand why that is the case.

And yes, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches DO say, "If you can't reproduce, you can't get married." They are consistent. So, you're oh-for-two, so far.

The couple in their 70's may well have sex, and ejaculation may well occur. Conception may or may not follow (remember Sarai in the OT). Catholics are still consistent.

However, Catholic couples DO promise to have children in their wedding vows, and any couple that is using even NFP for selfish reasons is guilty of sin. Catholicism is consistent here.

So, what's CONTRIVED BULLSHIT is you post in which you completely misrepresent or misunderstand (or both) what Catholicism teaches.

And all that anger in the last paragraph...you need professional counseling. Seriously.

[athrock]

duplicate

sorry

[athrock]

That's one reason.

Keep thinking...ask your mom if you need help.

Ah, yes, another example of a smarmy, egotistical, snarky, hateful, holier-than-thou, homophobic supposed christian.  They think that they get to insult and disrespect anyone who is perceived as being disrespectful to their imaginary friend.  And some people are surprised by those studies that find that christian children are more judgmental and less empathetic than secularly-raised children.  If you're not a member of their church, you're scum, and they're looking forward to watching you fry in hell from their comfy little perch in heaven.

And you are an example of an evolutionary superior "bright"? Of one who is above all others and can look down upon those you have judged because of your compassion for the lowliness of their backward state of existence?

Nah.

[drfuzzy]

Satire re: homophobia is very homophobic.  Ignorant, repulsive and ineffective.  Any phobia is a fear of something.  Homophobia is taught, it's not one of the ingrained phobias. Fear and hatred are taught by fearful and ignorant and hateful people. There are tribal, evolutionary basis for hatred, but hatred is not genetic.

Re: quote.  Give us some articles.  Show us where scientists have discovered the genetic basis for homosexuality - - no, of course I can read, and your offensive little satire piece did not say that scientists have discovered the genetic basis for homosexuality, you said homophobia, which was fucking stupid even in satire.  But to include it in the satire opens the door for an examination of scientific studies on the subject that you just want to dismiss as yucky and unchristian and disordered.  And genetic differences HAVE been found between heterosexual and homosexual males.  I can go find studies, and just might (I have them at home, unfortunately I'm at work) but since you decided to include genetics in your immature and hateful little slam, you should supply the research studies.

Google: is homophobia genetic

Results:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...%20genetic

I would bet my house that you did not read the Scientific American article.  It goes on at length, repeatedly, how homophobic attitudes are instilled by the reaction of parents and authority figures in a child's life.  It says nothing about genetics.  Do you really think I'm so stupid that I will accept a list of a google search?  My 9-year-old niece could have come up with that list, and then told me what most of the articles were about.