Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine

[downbeatplumb]

Would you agree or disagree that being Catholic is hard?

For me impossible.

[drfuzzy]

Nearly every post you've written here proves that you are a homophobe.  The homophobia satire was over-the-top homophobic.  You referred to homosexual acts as "disordered".  I assume this also applies to the many gay couples who have been together for more than 50 years and are devoted to each other.  And you cannot say that you love the gay person while referring to a private act of devotion between two people, that harms no one, as "disordered".  You are a homophobe, and an egotistical, offensive, abusive one at that.

 Sex between two men or two women is disordered. Stating this does not make me a homophobe.

Calling me a homophobe is simply YOUR attempt to capture the moral high ground and end the discussion.

You could just say, "I don't like what you're saying, and I don't want to talk with you anymore."

Sex between two men and two women occurs in nature, in every mammalian species.  Standing on rules written by bronze age men, in order to judge and point fingers at one sin over many others that they list which you ignore, is cherry-picking.  It's using your Bible to happily bash people who are behaving in a way the YOU (gasp!) think is wrong.  And I happen to be one of those people that you're bashing.  Saying "god says" is bullshit.  It's an excuse to judge and hate, nothing more.

[athrock]

Carnal desires include far more than sexual matters, LC.

To be "carnal" means to live according to the desires of the flesh. This could mean anything from a desire for more chocolate, a bigger house, a promotion at work. These things are not bad - nor is sex, btw - but our DESIRES for them can be the things that DRIVE us each day. As such, these desires are disordered.

You may have seen the bumpersticker "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins." This is an example of a carnal, or worldly, philosophy. Perhaps you have a friend or neighbor whose whole life revolves around his new boat, her vacation plans, her wardrobe, his promotion. Bigger. Better. Faster. More expensive toys. They are not trying to merely keep up with the Joneses, they want to BE the Joneses. They have a hunger for things, for pleasures - drugs, alcohol, sex, money, power - that is insatiable, and they strive to find anything to fill the emptiness they feel inside. Something to distract them from the pain. This is because the things of this world cannot satisfy us for very long. We are eternal and these momentary, material pleasures are not.

And not to replay a subject which has been beaten to death in this forum, but without God, you can ACT according to your ideas of right and wrong, but you cannot KNOW what is right and wrong.

What you are actually describing is hedonism.  Please demonstrate to me that all atheists are drug addicted, STD-spreading, greedy, unbridled hedonists and you may have a point.  It's a ridiculous assertion.  There is no reason to think that a rational, mentally healthy, well adjusted person is not capable of tempering their "desires of the flesh" to live a fulfilling, and well balanced life -without- inserting God into the picture.  I have yet to see a theist make a good case for this.  

You can call it hedonism if you like, though this is not a term that is commonly used among believers. And I have never said that all atheists are...etc, etc. nor would I say that all believers are holy, righteous, etc. Humans fall in various places along a spectrum of understanding, and I see no reason why an atheist cannnot make good decisions and live as a moral man.

Man is a tri-partite being (spirit, soul and body), the the body is the lower, outer portion of our being. When I first look at you, I see your body, your flesh, and this may or may not appeal to me. Dating starts here. Drinking buddies are based on this level of relationship. Then, as I get to know you, I learn more about how you think, what your views are, etc. This is your mind (composed of your intellect, emotions and will), and knowing your mind is the when real friendships and marriages begin to be formed. Finally, the innermost (or highest) part of you is your spirit. It is this portion of our being that can be opened to god, and it consists of conscience and intuition.

Now, a person may be carnal if they live primarily for the pleasures of the flesh which we've already discussed. You may know people who are "foodies", for example. Alternatively, someone may be "soulish" if they are moved primarily by their intellect (the world of ideas and information) or their emotions (love, jealousy, etc.). The will is that part of us that chooses between the information presented by the intellect, the emotions and the body.

Here's an example: the body wants sex, the emotions demand love, and the intellect cautions that he's married to your best friend. What do you choose? 

The moral atheist might say goodnight and go home alone rather than invite her best friend's husband in for a romp. (And the Christian might jump him first chance, but that's another matter.)


The point I'll close with is this: While it may be possible to live a "good" life as a fleshly or soulish person, prior to the spiritual regeneration which occurs when someone is born again, the spirit is not open to the things of God, and it is impossible to live as a SPIRITUAL man. You have no antenna (or no satellite dish) with which to receive the input of God in your life. Only through baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are we able to hear the things that God wants to reveal to us each day. This is why much of what Christians say falls on deaf ears. So to speak.

And even many believers do not have their dishes pointed in the right direction which explains why their reception is so obviously poor. This, in turn, leads to the hypocrisy which scandalizes you so.

[The Valkyrie]

You shouldn't refer to the church as "she". It's a misogynistic organisation and, as such, should be referred to as "he".

[athrock]

Sex between two men and two women occurs in nature, in every mammalian species.  Standing on rules written by bronze age men, in order to judge and point fingers at one sin over many others that they list which you ignore, is cherry-picking.  It's using your Bible to happily bash people who are behaving in a way the YOU (gasp!) think is wrong.  And I happen to be one of those people that you're bashing.  Saying "god says" is bullshit.  It's an excuse to judge and hate, nothing more.

I could have guessed as much. But that changes nothing.

Long ago, men who were just as bright and just as intelligent as you were informed by God that certain behaviors are wrong. Although they were loathe to forego the sexual pleasures which they had known (and even observed among the other species of mammals living upon the earth), they were convinced of the holiness of God and the righteousness of His commands.

And so, they wrote down God's laws, obeyed them, and taught others to do the same. Not out of fear, not out of judgment, but out of a desire to respond fully and obediently to an awesome, eternal God who offers love far greater than any known in this life.

[Divinity]

No, long ago men who were primitive morons wrote down what they believed to be God's rules, but were just their own made up bullshit. They made god in their own image. And they used the name of God to control people, and stone them whenever they didn't act the way they wanted them to.

People today believe it because they are sheep in need of a Sheppard. The Wolf Showed up to fill the role, and so they went along with it.

[Joods]

@Athrock: Keep on being delusional with that.

[drfuzzy]

Sex between two men and two women occurs in nature, in every mammalian species.  Standing on rules written by bronze age men, in order to judge and point fingers at one sin over many others that they list which you ignore, is cherry-picking.  It's using your Bible to happily bash people who are behaving in a way the YOU (gasp!) think is wrong.  And I happen to be one of those people that you're bashing.  Saying "god says" is bullshit.  It's an excuse to judge and hate, nothing more.

I could have guessed as much. But that changes nothing.

Long ago, men who were just as bright and just as intelligent as you were informed by God that certain behaviors are wrong. Although they were loathe to forego the sexual pleasures which they had known (and even observed among the other species of mammals living upon the earth), they were convinced of the holiness of God and the righteousness of His commands.

And so, they wrote down God's laws, obeyed them, and taught others to do the same. Not out of fear, not out of judgment, but out of a desire to respond fully and obediently to an awesome, eternal God who offers love far greater than any known in this life.

Yep, they weren't god's rules.  They were men's rules.  While they were busy coming up with rules, they also included things like women being the property of men, and the rules slaves had to live by, and when killing other tribes and taking all their virgin females was ok, etc., etc.

[athrock]

No, long ago men who were primitive morons wrote down what they believed to be God's rules, but were just their own made up bullshit.   They made god in their own image.  And they used the name of God to control people, and stone them whenever they didn't act the way they wanted them to.

People today believe it because they are sheep in need of a Sheppard.  The Wolf Showed up to fill the role, and so they went along with it.

No, today people claim that it is all just "made up bullshit" so that they can do whatever they want.

[drfuzzy]

---

 What you are actually describing is hedonism.  Please demonstrate to me that all atheists are drug addicted, STD-spreading, greedy, unbridled hedonists and you may have a point.  It's a ridiculous assertion.  There is no reason to think that a rational, mentally healthy, well adjusted person is not capable of tempering their "desires of the flesh" to live a fulfilling, and well balanced life -without- inserting God into the picture.  I have yet to see a theist make a good case for this.  

---

---

 You can call it hedonism if you like, though this is not a term that is commonly used among believers. And I have never said that all atheists are...etc, etc. nor would I say that all believers are holy, righteous, etc. Humans fall in various places along a spectrum of understanding, and I see no reason why an atheist cannnot make good decisions and live as a moral man. 

---

 Man is a tri-partite being (spirit, soul and body), the the body is the lower, outer portion of our being.

 

---

 When I first look at you, I see your body, your flesh, and this may or may not appeal to me. Dating starts here. Drinking buddies are based on this level of relationship. Then, as I get to know you, I learn more about how you think, what your views are, etc. This is your mind (composed of your intellect, emotions and will), and knowing your mind is the when real friendships and marriages begin to be formed. Finally, the innermost (or highest) part of you is your spirit. It is this portion of our being that can be opened to god, and it consists of conscience and intuition.

Now, a person may be carnal if they live primarily for the pleasures of the flesh which we've already discussed. You may know people who are "foodies", for example. Alternatively, someone may be "soulish" if they are moved primarily by their intellect (the world of ideas and information) or their emotions (love, jealousy, etc.). The will is that part of us that chooses between the information presented by the intellect, the emotions and the body.

Here's an example: the body wants sex, the emotions demand love, and the intellect cautions that he's married to your best friend. What do you choose? 

The moral atheist might say goodnight and go home alone rather than invite her best friend's husband in for a romp. (And the Christian might jump him first chance, but that's another matter.)


The point I'll close with is this: While it may be possible to live a "good" life as a fleshly or soulish person, prior to the spiritual regeneration which occurs when someone is born again, the spirit is not open to the things of God, and it is impossible to live as a SPIRITUAL man. You have no antenna (or no satellite dish) with which to receive the input of God in your life. Only through baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are we able to hear the things that God wants to reveal to us each day. This is why much of what Christians say falls on deaf ears. So to speak.

And even many believers do not have their dishes pointed in the right direction which explains why their reception is so obviously poor. This, in turn, leads to the hypocrisy which scandalizes you so. 

---

You're full of assertions you can't prove.  You can't prove that we have souls, for example.  There is no god, there are no souls.  Anyone who tells us what god says, thinks, or does is lying.  It's all a means of controlling other humans.

Now, when you prove that god exists, and that we have souls, you might have an argument worth listening to.  Maybe.  Until then, you're just a troll who enjoys judging other people and splattering your crap all over the internet.