Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine

[Cato]

I've already explained this. He says it's hard, but in the end it's rewarding enough to make it worth it to him... and he describes his life as being a "beautiful life",  and wishes others could have a life as beautiful as his.

CL,
I'm asking you to consider something. You keep making the point that he has reconciled and is okay and happy with being homosexual juxtaposed to RCC doctrine. I have no problem with this as far as he is concerned; however, you are seemingly translating this into apologetic justification for the RCC position on the issue. He referenced the Eucharist, but a simple google search will return numerous instances of parochial withholding of the sacrament if he dares act on his nature.

What's being disputed is your church's position on the matter, not one man's adherence to stricture and your approval of the same. I think this is a good time to remind ourselves that it took the church about 362 year to recognize Galileo while still mandating that 'for the times' Galileo should still be considered a scoundrel. By this standard perhaps I can expect your fucking church will have a leader that will make a statement that recognizes, but doesn't simultaneously betray doctrinal hatred regarding homosexuals in the year 2378.

Can't fucking wait.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not here to argue with someone about the Church. I know how ya'll feel about it, and you know how I feel about it.

My objection was to Irrational accusing the guy of wanting everyone to suffer when what he actually said was "I wish everyone had a life as beautiful as mine."

Regardless of whether you personally think his life sounds good or not, HE does think it's good. So his statement obviously doesn't mean he wants people to suffer.

[The Grand Nudger]

A life "as beautiful as his" is a life of suffering, denying who he is and what he wants to satisfy the desires of grown men in dresses who purport to speak for an imaginary king.

[GrandizerII]

I'm not here to argue with someone about the Church. I know how ya'll feel about it, and you know how I feel about it.

My objection was to Irrational accusing the guy of wanting everyone to suffer when what he actually said was "I wish everyone had a life as beautiful as mine."  

Regardless of whether you personally think his life sounds good or not, HE does think it's good. So his statement obviously doesn't mean he wants people to suffer.

Actually, it was a question at the start ... so perhaps your accusation about me is a straw?

But that said, you didn't really answer about what he meant by hard if it did not involve suffering? And you can't change the fact that, in the article, he did wish such life on others. Doesn't matter if he has some cognitive dissonance going on that makes him call it beautiful even though he acknowledges it's hard and that there's restrictions on how he lives.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not here to argue with someone about the Church. I know how ya'll feel about it, and you know how I feel about it.

My objection was to Irrational accusing the guy of wanting everyone to suffer when what he actually said was "I wish everyone had a life as beautiful as mine."  

Regardless of whether you personally think his life sounds good or not, HE does think it's good. So his statement obviously doesn't mean he wants people to suffer.

Actually, it was a question at the start ... so perhaps your accusation about me is a straw?

Yes, it was a question at first, so when I asked you to clarify, you pointed me to where he said he wishes everyone's life was as beautiful as his, telling me that's where he said he wants everyone to suffer. 

But that said, you didn't really answer about what he meant by hard if it did not involve suffering? And you can't change the fact that, in the article, he did wish such life on others. Doesn't matter if he has some cognitive dissonance going on that makes him call it beautiful even though he acknowledges it's hard and that there's restrictions on how he lives.

He meant hard as in, it's hard to resist temptation to do something that he believes is the wrong thing. But in the end it's rewarding enough to make it worth it. I don't think it's that hard of a concept to understand. 

It's like me and my husband dating for 4 1/2 years but not having sex. It was super difficult, but very rewarding to know that we were following God's plan for us, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

[GrandizerII]

Actually, it was a question at the start ... so perhaps your accusation about me is a straw?

Yes, it was a question at first, so when I asked you to clarify, you pointed me to where he said he wishes everyone's life was as beautiful as his, telling me that's where he said he wants everyone to suffer. 

But that said, you didn't really answer about what he meant by hard if it did not involve suffering? And you can't change the fact that, in the article, he did wish such life on others. Doesn't matter if he has some cognitive dissonance going on that makes him call it beautiful even though he acknowledges it's hard and that there's restrictions on how he lives.

He meant hard as in, it's hard to resist temptation to do something that he believes is the wrong thing. But in the end it's rewarding enough to make it worth it. I don't think it's that hard of a concept to understand. 

It's like me and my husband dating for 4 1/2 years but not having sex. It was super difficult, but very rewarding to know that we were following God's plan for us, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Yeah ... well, try not having sex for life. Let's see if you would wish such a beautiful life on others as well.

This is what he said exactly, by the way:

Would I trade in my Catholicism for a worldview where I get to marry a man? Would I trade in the Eucharist and the Mass and the rest of it? Being a Catholic means believing in a God who literally waits in the chapel for me, hoping I'll stop by just for ten minutes so he can pour out love and healing on my heart. Which is worth more -- all this, or getting to have sex with who I want? I wish everybody, straight or gay, had as beautiful a life as I have.

So what he refers to as an example of "beautiful" is choosing to not get married to someone he loves and not having sex with them, and wishing such "beautiful" life for others ... This might not mean he's saying he wishes all were celibate, but he certainly wishes others lived a hard life like him, a life which he happens to call "beautiful". And it does seem obvious he wishes homosexual people to be celibate like him ...

This, to me (and I'm sure to many others as well) translates to "wishing a life of suffering on others". That's all there is to it.

[MTL]

I just want to say I am planning on returning as a gay man in my next life.

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes, it was a question at first, so when I asked you to clarify, you pointed me to where he said he wishes everyone's life was as beautiful as his, telling me that's where he said he wants everyone to suffer. 



He meant hard as in, it's hard to resist temptation to do something that he believes is the wrong thing. But in the end it's rewarding enough to make it worth it. I don't think it's that hard of a concept to understand. 

It's like me and my husband dating for 4 1/2 years but not having sex. It was super difficult, but very rewarding to know that we were following God's plan for us, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Yeah ... well, try not having sex for life. Let's see if you would wish such a beautiful life on others as well.

This is what he said exactly, by the way:

Would I trade in my Catholicism for a worldview where I get to marry a man? Would I trade in the Eucharist and the Mass and the rest of it? Being a Catholic means believing in a God who literally waits in the chapel for me, hoping I'll stop by just for ten minutes so he can pour out love and healing on my heart. Which is worth more -- all this, or getting to have sex with who I want? I wish everybody, straight or gay, had as beautiful a life as I have.

So what he refers to as an example of "beautiful" is choosing to not get married to someone he loves and not having sex with them, and wishing such "beautiful" life for others ... This might not mean he's saying he wishes all were celibate, but he certainly wishes others lived a hard life like him, a life which he happens to call "beautiful". And it does seem obvious he wishes homosexual people to be celibate like him ...

This, to me (and I'm sure to many others as well) translates to "wishing a life of suffering on others". That's all there is to it.

Why don't you ask him? Accusing someone of wanting others to suffer is a very horrible accusation to make at another person. His website is on the OP. I checked it out and it links to his facebook account and to his Twitter. Go on there, write him a PM, and ask him "Hey, by what you wrote, did you mean to say you want people to suffer? DO you in fact want people to suffer?" I did not get that message at all, but if you're so convinced, why not ask? That way we can settle this once and for all without making incriminating accusations about another person which might turn out to be completely false.

[GrandizerII]

Yeah ... well, try not having sex for life. Let's see if you would wish such a beautiful life on others as well.

This is what he said exactly, by the way:



So what he refers to as an example of "beautiful" is choosing to not get married to someone he loves and not having sex with them, and wishing such "beautiful" life for others ... This might not mean he's saying he wishes all were celibate, but he certainly wishes others lived a hard life like him, a life which he happens to call "beautiful". And it does seem obvious he wishes homosexual people to be celibate like him ...

This, to me (and I'm sure to many others as well) translates to "wishing a life of suffering on others". That's all there is to it.

Why don't you ask him? Accusing someone of wanting others to suffer is a very horrible accusation to make at another person. His website is on the OP. I checked it out and it links to his facebook account and to his Twitter. Go on there, write him a PM, and ask him "Hey, by what you wrote, did you mean to say you want people to suffer? DO you in fact want people to suffer?" I did not get that message at all, but if you're so convinced, why not ask? That way we can settle this once and for all without making incriminating accusations about another person which might turn out to be completely false.

Sigh ... no, because I'm very sure he would answer "no", thus contradicting some of his thoughts as expressed in the article.

He is not explicitly saying he wants others to suffer, nor have I actually said he did. But the context does say he wants others to live this hard but (in his mind, also beautiful) life like him.

To repeat: He himself is saying he doesn't get to do what he (his flesh) wants to do, and that he wishes others could live a life like his, where fleshly desires are prohibited or restricted for the sake of spirituality and connection with God. This restricting one's life by, for example, not having sex for the rest of your life even when you have the desire to is suffering. Don't tell me it's not.

You are the only one here, by the way, arguing with me about this. Perhaps if I really am getting it all wrong, someone else can chime in and tell me I need to reexamine my interpretation here?

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm a Catholic person in an Atheist forum. Naturally, 90% of the time I'm the only one on my side of an argument. I'm sure if we were on a Christian forum, everyone would be backing me up.