TBR starts The Quran Reloaded!

[ReptilianPeon]

Death & mass killings that wars cause are not something I would wish for. 
Why don't the west and Russia stop selling weapons to the Saudies & the Houthies instead ?

Or for a change, why don't Britain fix what it did in the Sykes-Picot agreement ? it can discuss with France how to fix the mess they made by slicing a one, big chunk of land into 20 or more states, each with funny national anthems & hilarious flags. Fake nations; deemed to be restless.

Al-Saud are indeed brutal, but their brutality can be stopped or at least decreased anytime, if the "Kuffar" stopped selling them arms to go on with their crimes. And who brought them to the throne anyways ? you should be aware of that.

At the moment, stopping selling weapons to Saudi is part of the national conversation in Britain I've heard. David Cameron is a noob, and being a hypocrite is part of what makes him unpopular. I always found it odd how some countries all allowed all the weapons they like and others (like Cuba and Iran) aren't allowed to have nice things.

I think a lot of problems will be solved if two things happen:
1. Elections in the United States stop being about who can spend the most money to bribe politicians. So the weapons manufactures can't encourage presidents to go to war.
And 2. al-Saud dies. I remember on the news a few years ago they talked about how they even had the audacity to house arrest Saudi princesses for being "rebellious". I never did find out what happened to those two ladies.

Saying what Islam is, and what Islam is not, must not come from political regimes, because we'll witness a bias issue. 
What is the difference between this, and between Wahhabi puppets who believe what other political regimes say about what Islam is ?

I suppose I shouldn't be dictating definitions like that. But if you can't agree on who is part of the Ummah and who isn't, how could a person then claim that there is objective morality? Where does the Ummah end and the Kuffar begin? I believe there was one prominent member of the Ummah in Britain, I think related to Narwaz, who said that people can do their Salat all at once at the end of the day rather than doing it at different points during the day. A lot of people dismissed him rather than have an intelligent discussion which is sad.

Just like you have these so-called "Christians" who have never read the Bible in their life, there are some people who don't do even basic things like Salat, but if you start to question their Iman then they will have a hissy fit. There are people like that in every religion. No two to people in the Ummah are exactly the same, and, perhaps I'm contradicting myself here, the Ummah has no clear edge.

They are humans, if you hadn't notice it just yet. So of course they will embrace the technology they grew up with.
Nobody adores them; but they treat them like humans; because : they are humans, MNMP. I feel you are treating them as if they were a savage tribe, that is alien to the human race. Let's not turn it into a "Lord of the Rings" scenario, where Wahhabies & Salafies are painted as "orcs".

You don't understand. Just as an example, somebody once told me Zakir Naik is smarter than my entire family combined, and that wasn't the worst thing either. How can they not view Zakir Naik as some kind of super human/demi-god if you have loads of people making statements like that? Have you see the sorts of things people say about people like Zaik Naik and Yusuf Estes. They act like robots on their Facebook pages, commenting on every single post and literally beg them to come to their city. They are treated as super humans, not ordinary humans.

Wahhabism is not a race or a gender, neither is it an animal kingdom. It's a line of thought.

All I seem to hear from these Wahaabis/Salafis types is Tasbih, Tasbih and Tasbih. And more Tasbih. They have nothing intelligent to say. Nothing. Forgive me for treating them like I do the dirt I walk on. There can be no reasoning with them; they are beyond saving. Vast majority of them are not sincere, and I try not to spend to much time on them.

EDIT: For those wondering, the majority of the vocabulary known by a typical Wahaabi is contained at the following link, because ignorance is strength to the Wahaabis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhikr
(under the section: Phrases commonly read during Dhikr. You will be familiar with a lot of the phrases because that is all the commutation some Wahaabis are capable of.)

Why should I have any respect for these robots? They make me ashamed to be human. I am sure Twelvers are just as bad before anyone says. I have no regrets for belittling people who want to destroy me.

Yes, they are extremely easy to manipulate, and since their way of belief is full of logical holes & mistakes & contradiction to the main religion, they can be used by different powers, to cause certain disturbances. 

Like turning Sunna against Shia; to do that it's easy to manipulate "Wahhabies" to battle "Twelvers"; soon, each will drag the whole sect with them.

You have easy to manipulate people in every religion - part the reason why I dislike religion,. Just look at Ted Cruz supporters. He gets all of his fans to pray that he will become the next president. Part of the reason why I left religion is because words are easily twisted for an agenda. In loads of places of worship, no matter the religion, all around the world, you have the Two Minutes of Hate, and people are conditioned to hate each other.

They say: don't throw rocks at others, when your own house is made of glass.

He did make a point, in the media, you rarely hear about the violence existing in the Torah & the Bible. In Palestine, Arabs suffered from Jewish extremists who were pretty much worse than ISIS. But hey : you'll be called anti-Semite. Because that story is told, with facts and lies.

Yeah like that Jewish man in Israel who, during the Christmas season, referred to Christians as "vampires" that needed to be expelled from his country. Very little in the media about that, especially when American Christians are constantly talking about a "war on Christmas". There are even Jews who say woman shouldn't drive (though an extreme minority) but you ask people and they'll have never heard of them. But everyone knows of Saudi and Iran of course. I posted about those Jews here.

Though, stoning has no base in Islam. It never was mentioned in the Quran. But Adnan was aggressive, and trying to put Nawaz to shame, so he slipped. Threw rocks, and his house was so fragile. One should not be hotheaded in debates.

I believe we already spoke about this, and I concede that. One will not find Rajm anywhere in the Quran. Adnan is best friends with Hamza I believe. I find it funny how Adnan always has stricter standards for the analysis of the Bible than the Quran. Hypocrite much?

But the point about the Torah ? yah, that's a point that wasn't answered:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#Torah

Stoning homosexuals and women is a Jewish thing, plain & simple. But blamed on Muslims despite the Quran not having anything related to that. Sadly, many Sunnies followed in their footsteps

If it's in the Torah it's in the Bible. But if you ask a Christian they'll deny it. People just believe what it's convenient for them to believe.

I hope you check your sources; such a verse does not exist.

What about Quran 5:3 (I think this is the Iyah I was thinking of), which includes the line:
"But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Here is the full Iyah (it is rather long):

"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh (only the flesh and not the offal?) of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Remember, the preferred drink is camel piss mixed with camel milk.  It's supposed to be good with horse meat.

[ReptilianPeon]

Remember, the preferred drink is camel piss mixed with camel milk.  It's supposed to be good with horse meat.

Drinking camel excrement is from the Hadith; it's not found in the Quran as far as I'm aware. It's funny nonetheless that some people actually believe that. Too many morons on this planet.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Remember, the preferred drink is camel piss mixed with camel milk.  It's supposed to be good with horse meat.

Drinking camel excrement is from the Hadith; it's not found in the Quran as far as I'm aware. It's funny nonetheless that some people actually believe that. Too many morons on this planet.

Mohammed said that muslims are to drink camel piss mixed with camel milk.  So do as he says.  It's supposed to be good.  Are you calling Mohammed a liar?  If so you're never get your giant pearl.

[robvalue]

Muhammad is clearly just fake Jesus. How have more people not noticed this?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Muslims are directed to believe in the Bible and in the Torah but if they never read them how can they believe in them?

[WinterHold]

MrNoMorePropaganda

At the moment, stopping selling weapons to Saudi is part of the national conversation in Britain I've heard. David Cameron is a noob, and being a hypocrite is part of what makes him unpopular. I always found it odd how some countries all allowed all the weapons they like and others (like Cuba and Iran) aren't allowed to have nice things. 

I think a lot of problems will be solved if two things happen:
1. Elections in the United States stop being about who can spend the most money to bribe politicians. So the weapons manufactures can't encourage presidents to go to war.
And 2. al-Saud dies. I remember on the news a few years ago they talked about how they even had the audacity to house arrest Saudi princesses for being "rebellious". I never did find out what happened to those two ladies.

The Sauds are sponsored by Britain, there's even a treaty (documented and preserved):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Darin

Without Britain, Saudi Arabia will not exist. 

The Treaty made the lands of the House of Saud a British protectorate and attempted to define its boundaries.[3] The British aim of the treaty was to guarantee the sovereignty ofKuwait, Qatar and the Trucial States.[4] Abdul-Aziz agreed not to attack British protectorates, but gave no undertaking that he would not attack the Sharif of Mecca[5]

The truth & fact is that, Britain created this Saudi nation. Without British support & protection, the bedwin family would've fell a long, long time ago, just like it fell twice before. 

No. I don't believe they will stop selling them weapons.

They will abandon them though, when the Sauds become old news; if people were about to revolt, Britain WILL stop selling the Sauds arms, and will search for another puppet (who is loyal to the British empire) to bring in to the throne.

Though, Britain is not as strong as before , it's not even an empire, and it's obvious that the U.S took its place as the sponsor of the Sauds.  

The second treaty of Darin would take place; but this time it would be the U.S instead of Britain, and another puppet instead of the old Sauds.

I suppose I shouldn't be dictating definitions like that. But if you can't agree on who is part of the Ummah and who isn't, how could a person then claim that there is objective morality? Where does the Ummah end and the Kuffar begin? I believe there was one prominent member of the Ummah in Britain, I think related to Narwaz, who said that people can do their Salat all at once at the end of the day rather than doing it at different points during the day. A lot of people dismissed him rather than have an intelligent discussion which is sad.

Just like you have these so-called "Christians" who have never read the Bible in their life, there are some people who don't do even basic things like Salat, but if you start to question their Iman then they will have a hissy fit. There are people like that in every religion. No two to people in the Ummah are exactly the same, and, perhaps I'm contradicting myself here, the Ummah has no clear edge.

The Ummah should include everybody believing that the message of Islam is true and correct; as long as their interpretation is not calling for the slaughter of others for the mere difference in thought.

In the context of the religion itself, it's a factual truth that the Quran is obvious. The contradiction never came until the Hadith entered the scene; turning the one nation into too many small fighting groups-Sunna & Shia are the biggest examples-. Even the Quranic interpretations became different 

The different opinions should be discussed; just like in the following verses which told the story of the Prophet Shoa'yb, and how he dealt with the difference of opinions:

( Sura 86 )   And do not sit on every path, threatening and averting from the way of Allah those who believe in Him, seeking to make it [seem] deviant. And remember when you were few and He increased you. And see how was the end of the corrupters.
( Sura 7 87 )   And if there should be a group among you who has believed in that with which I have been sent and a group that has not believed, then be patient until Allah judges between us. And He is the best of judges."

The Quran gave the best example for freedom of speech, and freedom of thought.

"Believe whatever you wanna believe in, and wait.".

The Kuffar on the other hand, are everybody who rejected the message. 

Discussion should be made, instead of pointing fingers and judging when a Muslim advocates a different line of thought. One point against Wahhabism, Salafism & Shia Twelver/Jafari sects: these sects publicly call for unifying "only" under a leader coming from the same sect; making "unification" between the Umma an impossibility.

You don't understand. Just as an example, somebody once told me Zakir Naik is smarter than my entire family combined, and that wasn't the worst thing either. How can they not view Zakir Naik as some kind of super human/demi-god if you have loads of people making statements like that? Have you see the sorts of things people say about people like Zaik Naik and Yusuf Estes. They act like robots on their Facebook pages, commenting on every single post and literally beg them to come to their city. They are treated as super humans, not ordinary humans.

Humans are just like that; MNMP. In south America, it is very well known that Soccer players along with fans, are being shot and killed sometimes; so even when it's about sports, human prove more and more that they can get pretty violent. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9s_Escobar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Caba%C3%B1as

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people...87916.html

And not just south America, the most important link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

It's not about Zakir or Salafies; it's about a category of humans who worship idols to the level of fanaticism, to the degree of slaughtering somebody.
Islam came to destroy this mentality; after all, "Shirk" is nothing more than this.

They main disastor that many Muslims fell in, is idolizing their fellow Imams and leaders. Shia Twelvers display a perfect example on that; and of course Sunni Salafies & Wahhabies too. Just like a soccer match, with each sect sitting with pop-corn, awaiting the grand finale, and ignoring -and forgetting- that they negated the first command God gave: to stay as far as possible from Shirk. 

And the masses have no brain; after all. All follow in the shouts of the idol, even if it meant the death of all. Even if it meant, that a person who never opened and read the Quran before, is speaking with all confidence that stoning people to death is so Islamic & mentioned in the Quran, just because a Salafi idol said so.

All I seem to hear from these Wahaabis/Salafis types is Tasbih, Tasbih and Tasbih. And more Tasbih. They have nothing intelligent to say. Nothing. Forgive me for treating them like I do the dirt I walk on. There can be no reasoning with them; they are beyond saving. Vast majority of them are not sincere, and I try not to spend to much time on them.

EDIT: For those wondering, the majority of the vocabulary known by a typical Wahaabi is contained at the following link, because ignorance is strength to the Wahaabis: 
(under the section: Phrases commonly read during Dhikr. You will be familiar with a lot of the phrases because that is all the commutation some Wahaabis are capable of.)

Why should I have any respect for these robots? They make me ashamed to be human. I am sure Twelvers are just as bad before anyone says. I have no regrets for belittling people who want to destroy me.

Another disaster that Salafies & Wahhabies embrace, is that they treat Allah like an ATM: 
Say, Subhan Allah, you enter heaven !
Commit all possible crimes, then say "Astagfur Allah" you enter heaven!

Dhik (more accurately: THikr) , was always about mentioning God, to remember him, to remember what he warned from; so we don't sin, so we don't forget. But it was converted into the same Christian concept where people do all kinds of sins, then go to admit them to a priest, then "voalah ! fogiven !!".

Support, the murder of innocents, support corruption, claim that you didn't see al-Saud stealing, then say "Astagferu Allah" 70 times, you enter heaven !

This is one of the main reason, you see some Muslims supporting ISIS DESPITE knowing the crimes they do.
and yes, this exists on both sides: in the Sunni & Shia sides.

But God can guide anybody to the light. Many Wahhabies left this line of thinking, and went on to expose it.

You have easy to manipulate people in every religion - part the reason why I dislike religion,. Just look at Ted Cruz supporters. He gets all of his fans to pray that he will become the next president. Part of the reason why I left religion is because words are easily twisted for an agenda. In loads of places of worship, no matter the religion, all around the world, you have the , and people are conditioned to hate each other.

The herd mentality is a disaster.
A person must trust his/her own mind before giving in to the ideas of others. 

It's a sentence in Islam, to investigate before before accusing others:

( Sura 49 Verse 12 )   O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

Yeah like that Jewish man in Israel who, during the Christmas season, referred to Christians as "vampires" that needed to be expelled from his country. Very little in the media about that, especially when American Christians are constantly talking about a "war on Christmas". There are even Jews who say woman shouldn't drive (though an extreme minority) but you ask people and they'll have never heard of them. But everyone knows of Saudi and Iran of course. I posted about those Jews .

Double standards are a very big problem.
No, nobody would attack or criticize the Jewish faith. I knew many Palestinians who were kicked out of their lands, saw their misery, and how they lived like nobodies, in a nationalistic world. Israel keeps expelling them and murder them, but nobody ever say a word.

Superpowers just accuse those who criticize and condemn that acts of being "Anti-Semite". The most stupid charge I ever heard of.

I saw their misery. And I knew that nobody will ever, ever, stand for Palestine.


And some even take it to the next level, and buy that Israel "which is an atomic country" is really being threatned by a democratically elected resistance group -a militia-. Funny.

Ironic.

I believe we already spoke about this, and I concede that. One will not find Rajm anywhere in the Quran. Adnan is best friends with Hamza I believe. I find it funny how Adnan always has stricter standards for the analysis of the Bible than the Quran. Hypocrite much?

From the way he dress -adnan-, the way he talks, the way he attacks in the debate, I judged him as a Sunni Salafi. That's why he couldn't stick to the Quran and admit that stoning has no base and never was mentioned in the book: he couldn't let go of the Hadiths that dictate stoning is allowed. That is so Salafi. 

If it's in the Torah it's in the Bible. But if you ask a Christian they'll deny it. People just believe what it's convenient for them to believe.

But you'll hear many of them, whine how "theevil Muslims" are raping their women and burning them on the streets; Some Coptic Egyptians for example who live in America usually carry on this propaganda, and they never turn their heads to the OT to find that these brutalities actually exist in THEIR religion; not ours.

But hey. The story's told, with facts and lies.

What about Quran 5:3 (I think this is the Iyah I was thinking of), which includes the line:
"But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Here is the full Iyah (it is rather long):

"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh (only the flesh and not the offal?) of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

In cases where a Muslim is forced, it's okay. That is probably the case in most sentences in Islam.
It's a very tolerant religion. I should say: a very merciful God.

[ReptilianPeon]

Bottom line, as they say, is I need to stop making myself ill by watching videos of people who kiss the feet of al-Saud. I don't know who is the most stupid out of these Wahaabi personalities, but Hamza is especially bad for repeating lies that he was called out on. There is no Fitra because believing in god is not natural for humans, as one ex-Christian missionary (and linguist) found out and wrote about in this book.

And secondly, Britain needs to stop being a noob and selling al-Saud weapons to kill civilians with. These Wahaabis assert that they care about humans rights, but Hamza clearly jumped at the opportunity to teach at Medina. I've even see them with bags of clothes, as part of a sideshow charity campaign, purchased from shops that employed people who died in the 2013 Saver Buildings collapse in Bangladesh.

So much for caring about poor people and the Ummah when you buy your clothes from Primark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaMVrwOhHVA

[WinterHold]

Bottom line, as they say, is I need to stop making myself ill by watching videos of people who kiss the feet of al-Saud. I don't know who is the most stupid out of these Wahaabi personalities, but Hamza is especially bad for repeating lies that he was called out on. There is no Fitra because believing in god is not natural for humans, as one ex-Christian missionary (and linguist) found out and wrote about  in this book.

While some view it as an objective morality, some would say it's a subjective, it's a never ending debate.
The "Fitra" or "Instinct" that points people to God from birth, will always be a debatable concept.

Though, history is not on your side, since it's a known fact that religion dominated the world since the dawn of time.

As far as the Pirahã have related to researchers, their culture is concerned solely with matters that fall within direct personal experience, and thus there is no history beyond living memory. Pirahã have a simple kinship system that includes baíxi (parent, grandparent, or elder), xahaigí (sibling, male or female), hoagí or hoísai (son), kai (daughter), and piihí(stepchild, favorite child, child with at least one deceased parent, and more).[4]

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So, we technically don't know if the Pirah are new, or that ancient. They might be some refugees who escaped the Spanish invasion in the 17 century; who knows? It's not like there is any history we can go back to.

And secondly, Britain needs to stop being a noob and selling al-Saud weapons to kill civilians with. These Wahaabis assert that they care about humans rights, but Hamza clearly jumped at the opportunity to teach at Medina. I've even see them with bags of clothes, as part of a sideshow charity campaign, purchased from shops that employed people who died in the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Savar_building_collapse]2013 Saver Buildings collapse in Bangladesh.

Hamza "Jumped"? I thought you said he was a Wahhabi agent that works for Saudies all along?
Yes; Britain should cease that; and also should cancel it's "bigoted" agreement that caused the Sauds to do everything they like, under British protection.

As a reminder, here is the British treaty that created Saudi Arabia and made Wahhabism an accepted religion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Darin

And by the way. Somebody edited this wikipedia article and "REMOVED" the purview of the treaty
It was there a few months ago, when I posted the link on this forum.

Looks like Britain and the Sauds are embarrassed from their own history.
Or maybe it's the ghost of Lawrence, paying us a visit ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._E._Lawrence

[robvalue]

I'm embarresed how Britain kisses up to Islam in general. Or at least, the politicians do. They may as well say, "Your overt threats are working."