What's the lamest defence of Theism you've ever heard?

[brewer]

The parental one: "Because I said so!".

[FebruaryOfReason]

The parental one: "Because I said so!".

= We need you to go to Sunday School so we can have some sex peace and quiet on a Sunday morning.

[Pat Mustard]

My favourite no brainers;

I was arguing with a convinced Catholic on another forum once. He asserted that the other planets orbited the earth. He claimed that without a fixed third point of reference it was impossible to disprove him.

I pointed out that the distance of those planets from the earth was not constant, and indeed not constant in exactly the way we would expect if all of them - including the earth - was orbiting another body that occupied the exact position that the Sun happens to be in.

I didn't get a response.

We moved on to evolution, and I invited him to visit the Smithsonian to review the mountain of evidence. His reply was "what evidence?".


What are your personal classics?

My Irish teacher in secondary school used a mix of Cartesian dualism and Aquinian first cause to try and solidify belief in god in us. Even as a believer, at the time, I was sceptical of them. Now having read up on reality a hell of a lot more, I find them laughable.

[Ravenshire]

Lamest defense of theism?

"I hear you. Everything you're saying makes sense. But, it can't be true because gawd makes me feel so good that the buy-bull must be true."

[LadyForCamus]

My personal favorite for amusement purposes is Wendy Wright screeching out to Dawkins "Were you THERE?!!" I don't think I've ever seen such a hysterically stupid person before, and I have met a lot of very stupid religious people!

Oh, and we also had a perfect troll who claimed to be a top biology student, while insisting that every life form shows "perfect design" - yeah, how could I not see how obvious that is?

Lol, yeah, the worst part about theists arguing "ID, therefore God," is that it inevitably leads to that bang-your-head-against-the-wall phrase we all know and despise: "well, evolution is just a THEORY!"

[Pat Mustard]

I pointed out that the distance of those planets from the earth was not constant, and indeed not constant in exactly the way we would expect if all of them - including the earth - was orbiting another body that occupied the exact position that the Sun happens to be in.

None of the planets have "constant" distances from the Sun though. All the planets have elliptical orbits, so their distance from the Sun fluctuates over the course of the year.

We moved on to evolution, and I invited him to visit the Smithsonian to review the mountain of evidence. His reply was "what evidence?".

What makes that odd is that the Catholic Church accepts evolution as fact, so he's going against his own church.

Considering what the Nazi pope was saying before he retired to wear his SS uniform, and some of the utterance of Wotyjla and Bergoglio, I'd doubt the sincerity of their acceptance of evolution.

I agree but don't put it like that, because while we did adapt to get where we are now, we are not the best species at surviving everything. Cockroaches survived what killed the dinosaurs, humans wouldn't survive something like that. There are far more species of life better at reproduction and survival than humans. Our biggest problem as a species is our own ignorance of our place on the planet and and in the universe.

Cockroaches have found a successful survival model
which significantly surpasses the tenure of human life on Earth, yes.

However, they've never risked adaptation beyond that successful survival model
...hence, they are still just cockroaches.

Better to attempt to evolve continually, and risk annihilation,
than to remain a cockroach for eternity, just to be on the safe side.

I mean, what's the point of surviving forever,
if you're just going to be a cockroach for eternity???

Survival at the cost of Evolution is worthless, IMO.

Actually, cockroaches haven't given up evolving, if we could get DNA from 60+m years ago we'd probably see that the modern cockroach is vastly different at the genetic level than his ancestors. That's a common misconception people often have about creatures that look like their distant ancestors, that they've stopped evolving (many people think we've stopped evolving too, for different reasons. We're god's greatest creation natch, so why bother attempting to improve the unimprovable), when in order to survive this long the creatures have to be able to adapt both significantly and frequently.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Ivan: That's the truth.

Some people seem to think ten irrational arguments add up to one rational one. They do not. One rational one would do; but even then, it needs evidence. Otherwise you can't be sure if your pontificating actually applies to reality, and not the simplistic model you've reduced it to.

VERY well put. Rationality is not additive. Its maximum is that of the most rational argument presented.

Boru

[LadyForCamus]

See also: the platypus

Well, at least Platypus are cute, in a backasswards sort of way.

But consider God's magnificent design in these unfortunate beasts:


the "Blob-Fish":



the "Sea-Pig":



the Angler-Fish:



The Lamprey Eel:



and my personal favourite,

....the star-nosed mole:




Well Done, God.

Oh, God, that last one is horrific...*shudder*. It looks like the inside of a vagina grew tentacles...

[MTL]

None of the planets have "constant" distances from the Sun though. All the planets have elliptical orbits, so their distance from the Sun fluctuates over the course of the year.


What makes that odd is that the Catholic Church accepts evolution as fact, so he's going against his own church.

Considering what the Nazi pope was saying before he retired to wear his SS uniform, and some of the utterance of Wotyjla and Bergoglio, I'd doubt the sincerity of their acceptance of evolution.

Cockroaches have found a successful survival model
which significantly surpasses the tenure of human life on Earth, yes.

However, they've never risked adaptation beyond that successful survival model
...hence, they are still just cockroaches.

Better to attempt to evolve continually, and risk annihilation,
than to remain a cockroach for eternity, just to be on the safe side.

I mean, what's the point of surviving forever,
if you're just going to be a cockroach for eternity???

Survival at the cost of Evolution is worthless, IMO.

Actually, cockroaches haven't given up evolving, if we could get DNA from 60+m years ago we'd probably see that the modern cockroach is vastly different at the genetic level than his ancestors. That's a common misconception people often have about creatures that look like their distant ancestors, that they've stopped evolving (many people think we've stopped evolving too, for different reasons. We're god's greatest creation natch, so why bother attempting to improve the unimprovable), when in order to survive this long the creatures have to be able to adapt both significantly and frequently.

They haven't evolved beyond being gross, yet.

[Jackalope]

They haven't evolved beyond being gross, yet.

There's no selection pressure for being gross.