The Problem with Christians

[Silver]

Cereal boxes don't offer degrees.

Plastic rings and temporary tattoos, certainly.

[Cyberman]

Isaiah 45:11-12
"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ordained all their host (stars).

...have I turned over two pages? In what reality is this a response to the etymology of the word Universe? Because if that's gotta make sense, I don't want to be sober.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

This liar does not have a science degree unless he found one in a cereal box.

My money is on christian college. About as helpful as used toiled paper in the real world.

In that case he would be able to at least bluff up some biological terms, like AAA.

He actually stated UNSW, and if that happens to be South Wales then it looks bad for Australia.

He may have a two-year tech certificate which he's trying to pass off as a "science degree", but then fuck anyone who won't be at all forthcoming with even that qualifying information!

[J a c k]

For some reason, I can't quote your reply to me, so this is just in response to your most recent reply to me.

I don't think you read your own responses. Read it again and find what's wrong with your answer. This is exactly what I meant with "arrogance". OK. Let me paint your picture for you:

All powerful god is sitting there looking at our little world and all our troubles. He's "interested in our lives" (your words). All these kids over here are being sold like cattle for sex slave purposes. All these women are being sold, too. People are starving to death. Haddassah (she's 19 months old) has a tumor in her liver. She had chemo for the first time yesterday. Allie (she's four) has had chemo way too many times to count by now, and all other kinds of painful procedures. Jesse's dad raped him since he was five until he was twelve, and now Jesse is in trouble with the law, because he tried to do the same thing to another kid in school. Your all powerful god sat through all of it. Then he takes a look into the future and notices that grandpa is going to get a stroke. Oh, no! He's important. What can he do to save his life? No, silly, not stop the stroke from happening. Not erase that incident from the plan, you crazy. He makes your wife and sister in law dream it, so they can ask him nicely first. "Ladies, I'm going to kill him, but you can change my mind if you pray to me." 

Arrogant, you are.

Now lets be clear on something. I do not believe your god exists. Up until now, you have not presented any evidence. You have not convinced me that he is real. I'm not mad at your god for having such arrogant followers, because I can't be mad at someone I don't believe exists. I say this, because this is something you theists love to use as a weapon. I am, however, fucken tired of Christians telling me their god is interested in our lives. Not mad at their god, annoyed by the people who made him up. Why? How arrogant, selfish, and blind do you have to be to think that your story paints a loving god? I am a true believer that people with faith in a god tend to pick a god that matches their character. Your god (which again, let me be clear, is most likely fictitious) is an asshole. Match the god to the followers. 

In summary:
A) Interested in our lives? No. Interested in the lives of those that his followers deem important. Everyone else is dispensable. 
B) So your wife and sister in law could pray for him? Because they can change his mind? Because he's flawed? 

None of this matters, though. Until you have evidence that he is real, all this means is that you want to believe in a god that fits your needs. I haven't seen evidence. Carry on.

God could have made humanity with no free will. He could have created a bunch of automatons who never ever choose to do anything wrong. I would ask, what would be the point of that when you are a relational being?

Now if freewill is in play, God cannot continually thwart the bad people from doing their evil deeds otherwise freewill ceases to exist. I have reconciled the fact that this is the way things are. For many it seems terribly unfair. I understand that.

These are the points I was hoping you would address:
- What is the point of prayer? He gives them a prophetic dream so they can pray for him. Why? Can they change his mind? What does it mean that the god can change his mind? 
- How does the god choose who he will pick for prophetic healing? Free will has nothing to do with the two girls' cancer. 
- Where is your evidence for god? 

Instead you focus on free will. Free fucken will! Round and round we go...

[Ryantology]

For some reason, I can't quote your reply to me, so this is just in response to your most recent reply to me.

I don't think you read your own responses. Read it again and find what's wrong with your answer. This is exactly what I meant with "arrogance". OK. Let me paint your picture for you:

All powerful god is sitting there looking at our little world and all our troubles. He's "interested in our lives" (your words). All these kids over here are being sold like cattle for sex slave purposes. All these women are being sold, too. People are starving to death. Haddassah (she's 19 months old) has a tumor in her liver. She had chemo for the first time yesterday. Allie (she's four) has had chemo way too many times to count by now, and all other kinds of painful procedures. Jesse's dad raped him since he was five until he was twelve, and now Jesse is in trouble with the law, because he tried to do the same thing to another kid in school. Your all powerful god sat through all of it. Then he takes a look into the future and notices that grandpa is going to get a stroke. Oh, no! He's important. What can he do to save his life? No, silly, not stop the stroke from happening. Not erase that incident from the plan, you crazy. He makes your wife and sister in law dream it, so they can ask him nicely first. "Ladies, I'm going to kill him, but you can change my mind if you pray to me." 

Arrogant, you are.

Now lets be clear on something. I do not believe your god exists. Up until now, you have not presented any evidence. You have not convinced me that he is real. I'm not mad at your god for having such arrogant followers, because I can't be mad at someone I don't believe exists. I say this, because this is something you theists love to use as a weapon. I am, however, fucken tired of Christians telling me their god is interested in our lives. Not mad at their god, annoyed by the people who made him up. Why? How arrogant, selfish, and blind do you have to be to think that your story paints a loving god? I am a true believer that people with faith in a god tend to pick a god that matches their character. Your god (which again, let me be clear, is most likely fictitious) is an asshole. Match the god to the followers. 

In summary:
A) Interested in our lives? No. Interested in the lives of those that his followers deem important. Everyone else is dispensable. 
B) So your wife and sister in law could pray for him? Because they can change his mind? Because he's flawed? 

None of this matters, though. Until you have evidence that he is real, all this means is that you want to believe in a god that fits your needs. I haven't seen evidence. Carry on.

God could have made humanity with no free will. He could have created a bunch of automatons who never ever choose to do anything wrong. I would ask, what would be the point of that when you are a relational being?

Now if freewill is in play, God cannot continually thwart the bad people from doing their evil deeds otherwise freewill ceases to exist. I have reconciled the fact that this is the way things are. For many it seems terribly unfair. I understand that.

There are limitations on our free will already. Can I levitate objects with my mind? Can I see the infrared spectrum? 

Certainly, your god could have designed physical barriers to sin, in which we could have all the will in the world to do something and yet it is not physically possible to do it. This would represent no more a violation of free will than my inability to breathe in space even though my will may be to breathe in space. It is clear your god chose not to do this, and by necessity, it must have been because he intended these things to be possible.

[robvalue]

Isaiah 45:11-12
"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ordained all their host (stars).

...have I turned over two pages? In what reality is this a response to the etymology of the word Universe? Because if that's gotta make sense, I don't want to be sober.

Red Dwarf FTW!

Yep, he's resorted to direct preaching now. You didn't miss anything.

[AJW333]

So you finally dropped the mask of being a man of science and open minded by quoting bible verses. In fact, you already dropped it by only selectively answering posts that are convenient to your imagined agenda.

Isaac Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds that ever lived and was a man of devout faith who wrote as much about God as he did about science. Science and faith are not mutually exclusive.

So, another try. What is the actualy evidence for the supernatural existing?

For you? I doubt there is any evidence that will satisfy you. What could I possibly write that you wouldn't accuse me of making up or lying about?

---

"By faith

In relation to that horrendous f word, take a look at my signature.

Faith's nightmare? The Christian faith has managed to last 2000 years. I'm sure it will outlast us all.

[Cyberman]

Isaac Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds that ever lived and was a man of devout faith who wrote as much about God as he did about science. Science and faith are not mutually exclusive.

And of course Newton overturned the world with his theological writings as much as his scientific ones.

[AJW333]

Nope.

Luke 14:33

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

This translation is a little clearer,

"So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple." ESV

The sense of renouncing here is to entrust all of your possessions to God - to consider them as God's, not yours. This may or may not entail giving it all away.

---

AJ, AJ, AJ... 
I thought I told you in your intro thread that you couldn't use "Bible" until you repped me. 

I knew you would eventually use it. Theists never disappoint. 

Fasten your seat belt as I have a whole world of Bible coming your way.

---

Sounds familiar.

"And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’” Luke 16:30

I don't follow the logic. It sounds like you're saying, "because your afterlife is going to be better than this life, you should make this life a whole lot worse for yourself." Why would a rational person want to do that?

An excellent question. Let's ask god-and-son-of-god:



Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
[...]
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wifee or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

[Bold emphasis my own.]

I'll pay that one.

[abaris]

For you? I doubt there is any evidence that will satisfy you. What could I possibly write that you wouldn't accuse me of making up or lying about?

So try me with scientific evidence. You claim to have a science degree. You should know how to take it from there.