Trump versus Clinton?

[Brian37]

KUSA, "Know your place peasant"

Me, "No and fuck you"

KUSA, "You're a meanie"

Your false martyr complex is right up there with theists.

[Brian37]

Since we keep on talking about what people deserve, with relation to their pay, and by reference to specific professions..let's take a look at the reason that some of those professions make less (or more) than the others..in reality, as opposed to any particular person's smug appraisal of their own self worth and the reduced value of others by reference to their jobs.

Teachers and farmers, for example....are softly forced into lesser pay for a good reason.  We want those services to be as broadly available as possible.  If farmers charged more for their product, as a consequence, their products would be out of reach for some segment of the public.  In other words, an even greater number of people would starve for lack of money.  If teachers were as well paid as they might wish to be, their services, too, would be beyond the reach of some segment of the populace.  An even greater number of people would be under-educated for lack of money.  

For some odd reason, we don't subject doctors (and a great many other professions) to such controls.  Now, a person might say.."the other stuff is a luxury, people should be able to charge whatever they want and pay whatever they want for luxury services and products"...to which I'd agree.  That, however, completely pulls the rug out from under any mention of what the producer or provider of said services -deserves-.  It;s just an issue, as I mentioned before...of what people ask for and what people are willing to pay.  The business plans we write, they help us seek out those willing customers that can meet our demands...they don't make us deserving of that money in any sense of the word.  They don't actually ensure that we get it, either, ofc....and why -should- they?  

The money doesn't come from our business plans, or even from our ability to write them.  Beyond the silliness of the notion that they might (and by extension that skill might) make us deserving...the plan itself isn't even the operative portion in creating the money.  You can write the best business plan the world has ever seen and fail to make a dime, the market rejects it.  The market is not a logical actor making logical decisions, nor are they paying anyone for the -plan-.  We've vastly overestimated the value of our own skill in either coming up with a plan or attempting to carry it out.  All other things beings equal, it's good to have a plan, it;s good to be skilled..but all other things are not equal...and just because having the plan is -one- thing we can do to better our chances, that doesn't make it the most important factor in our success in any way other than it being the most important factor we can directly effect.  We all rely, all of us, on a series of decisions made by others, not always logical, not always good decisions, to profit.  Not on what we deserve, not on what we plan for, not on our greater intrinsic value than another.  Just money changing hands.  That's it, that's all, there's nothing else to it.  You can make the shittier product and simultaneously the greater profits.  You can make the superior product and inferior profit.  You can be more skilled than your competition and still get out competed, and you can be less skilled and drive them out of business nevertheless.

This is -why- it's objectively more risky to be an employer than an employee.  That risk, however, is self assumed, and if we worry that we won't be sufficiently compensated for the risk, then maybe we shouldn't risk it.  When we decide, like must of us do, to work for someone else,  we're leaning on the fact that that guy rolled the dice and won.  We're hitching our wagon to a winner, rather than risking loss ourselves. His being the lucky holder of a winning ticket, no matter how hard he worked to find one, does not justify -anything- at all....and looking at the rate of failure for business owners, even successful ones, it's actually difficult to say that the employees are the fools, as opposed to the employers, even if the employers do manage to come up aces at some point, with one of their (likely) many ideas.

This is -why- it's objectively more risky to be an employer than an employee

No it is not. It is simply a different type of risk. It is much easier to do what you want when you own the business. It still remains that the workers do the bulk of the work. The "risk" for the owner is more mental and math than risk of physical injury and sweat. I will say that I do value the owners who are doing the labor with you, vs the lazy ones who sit up front or in an office 5 states away.

It is much harder to physically sweat 8-12 hours a day and on top of that be at the mercy of your boss's labor costs even when you do the best you can.

Again, too many people are stuck in either or propositions. The employer and employee are BOTH needed to make a business work, neither are more important than the other. But in our current climate, it is lopsided and the people who do the work are the bulk of the population and as it currently stands in our current climate workers do not have the voice they once had. 

The liberals I call sane are hardly against the private sector, and we know and accept the risk an owner takes, the only thing most workers want is for the owner to not stand on us an treat us like we are mere property or numbers on a page. Assholes like Trump are old cold war liars who think life is merely a show and everyone below them are their toys.

[Mermaid]

Well, that is disgusting and frightening if you are saying what I think you are saying.

I don't think I'm as important as Einstein was.

You just said it's not the profession, it's the person.

[Brian37]

I don't think I'm as important as Einstein was.

You just said it's not the profession, it's the person.

Our ivory tower friend here doesn't get it. Sad part is we aren't even telling him to go away, just that his attitude sucks.

[KUSA]

You aren't paying my bills so I couldn't give one rats ass what you think of me.

If we are in fact, "in this together", then I and other contributors are paying your bills. You are a taker.

You can make this about me the individual all you want, but I am not the only person in society at the low end.

This is about you. It's not that you are at the low end. People on the low end can still contribute more than they take. You don't do this. You are a taker.

Fuck you. You don't have the balls to go up to a low wage worker or even a homeless person for that matter and spew the judgmental bullshit you aim at me here.

If they started talking politics to me then I most certainly would give them an ear full.

You are just another self centered brat who stupidly thinks pay equals morality.

This is not a morality discussion. Are you drunk again?

Live in your ivory tower asshole. You have no clue what a selfish person you are in reality.

I am not the selfish one. I contribute. You are selfish as you are a taker.

Contribute vs take? Yes lets go after the takers, like the Kochs, Walmart, GE, EXXON, NFL... I agree.

They certainly take but this does not excuse you. You would be a taker even if they didn't exist. You are a taker.

[KUSA]

I don't think I'm as important as Einstein was.

You just said it's not the profession, it's the person.

That's true. Einstein was a brilliant person with an extraordinary mind. What don't you understand about this?

[KUSA]

the only thing most workers want is for the owner to not stand on us an treat us like we are mere property or numbers on a page.

You have a job? Oh please tell us about it.

[Minimalist]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/trump-mi...agitators/

Trump militia forms to ‘forcefully protect’ rally goers against ‘far-left agitators’

“We are *defensive*, *protective* of innocents who are being beaten and harassed for their political views.”

Within hours, the account reportedly had over 500 followers, and members were already asking for “uniform suggestions.”

That should be easy.

[abaris]

That should be easy.

Wrong shade of brown, though. Or maybe not. At least that looks a bit like feces.

[Minimalist]

Give him some time.  He's just getting into this whole 'fuhrer' thing.