God and Distaster

[ozgoat]

I think it's a load of hogwash now, but it made sense to me when I was a kid.

It's so good to see people growing out of idiotic belief.

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Where do you get the idea that God would want to stop such things happening? There's your problem.

It'd be nice if once in a while your god would issue a press release saying "I let happen this because......." , but a silent god is an unbelievable god.

[Anomalocaris]

I think it's a load of hogwash now, but it made sense to me when I was a kid.

It's so good to see people growing out of idiotic belief.

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Where do you get the idea that God would want to stop such things happening? There's your problem.

It'd be nice if once in a while your god would issue a press release saying "I let happen this because......." , but a silent god is an unbelievable god.

Although in defense of existence of god, I have to point out that a person as confused as Frodo is just as unbelievable, yet so confused a frodo exists. :p

[Skipper]

If you were rescued from a life threatening event would you thank the person who saved you even though others may have died, I think you would and I know I would.

Let's say you were in a building that caught fire and dozens of people died in the inferno. However, you survived because someone dragged you out of the burning building. Would you be grateful and thank the person? I'm sure you would!

But let's say you later discover that the person who saved you is a pyromaniac and is responsible for setting the building on fire. Would you still be grateful? Or would you be angry that the asshole killed dozens of people, destroyed property and put your life in danger?

So why is thanking God any different?

Because your deity supposedly has the power to prevent disasters. Imagine there's a gas leak in your house which knocks out you and your entire family. The fire department shows up and carries you and one of your children outside to safety. However, they do nothing to stop the leak (when they could easily do so by turning a valve) and refuse to bring your spouse and other child out of the house. Finally, the gas ignites, incinerating your spouse and child, and burning your house to the ground.

Now, how do you feel about this turn of events? Do you praise the fire department for saving you and your child? Or are you angry that they did nothing to shut off the gas or retrieve the rest of your family?

This. Excellent post Thor.

Religious logic : "Well, that was bad, tens of thousands died, millions more will suffer, but I guess it could have been worse, PRAISE THE LORD!!!"

Sickening.

No, you are sickening.

For any reason other than the fact I've pointed out exactly how Christian logic works when there's been a massive disaster?

[fr0d0]

Once again you did not answer my question

What I'm saying, and have put it in several ways, is that your definition is wrong, as usual. You don't want to look into that, which is fine.

[Anomalocaris]

No, you are sickening.

For any reason other than the fact I've pointed out exactly how Christian logic works when there's been a massive disaster?

You completely refuse to buy the any of the bullshit that he swallowed and allowed to permeat into every one of his cells, Skip, what a sickeningly independent minded man you are!

[reverendjeremiah]

...because your feelings are hurt? Nice logic.

So if God made humans indestructible that would make him real? Bull shit.

On the one hand, you guys moan that heaven would be torture in it's perfection, and on the other about how God can't exist because life isn't like your fairy tale version of heaven. Both are wrong, and both demonstrate gross ignorance of the reality of faith.

Then you champion the "realist atheist" who can cope with their shit lives.

Grow a brain and go figure out some shit.

That is only our complaints, yet you do the exact opposite. You say heaven would be grand and that it is perfect is the reason why it exists?!? God does things that you dont like and that therefore makes him real?

Also, another thing..If I was indestructable, I would REALLY consider it great evidence that I was created by a perfect being. I expect things create by a perfect being to work VERY well and last a VERY long time. Your standards of "perfect" are much, much lower than the standards atheists have for perfect. In fact it makes your claims to be suspect that you have such lowered standards of evidence for it.

If I told you I believed that Goblins roamed the Earth, but on questioning me you found my standards for evidence are extremely low, wouldnt you think me not only wrong, but somewhat of a moron? If you demanded high standards of evidence for such claims and I said "you are such a whiner! Just because the Goblins dont slave to your beck and call then you have to act childish and not believe in them. Why dont you grow up and believe in Goblins already!". Yeah, not only would you think me a moron, but you would actually be offended.

Lets look at your standards of evidence. You are an "agnostic theist", which means you believe in a god, and you also believe that he is unknowable. If he is unknowable, and you honestly believe that, then how can you believe a god even exists? He's unknowable! Meaning you cant be sure one way or another!

[theVOID]

Once again you did not answer my question

What I'm saying, and have put it in several ways, is that your definition is wrong, as usual. You don't want to look into that, which is fine.

My definition IS the correct definition.

Omnibenevolence: Omni = Infinite/Unlimited, Benevolence = Love/Kindness.

So, how is creating a universe with knowledge that it will give rise to a future natural disaster that kills thousands of people while causing suffering for millions and not preventing it when it occurs, even though you have the power to do so, "infinitely kind"? You said you can establish that it is logically, so go ahead, where's the syllogism?

[reverendjeremiah]

God did create a perfect world, Satan and people like you and me caused the imperfections that are seen in the world.

a perfect world created by a perfect god can be screwed up by imperfect mortals? That makes ZERO sense and is obviously a quick excuse to avoid blame.

theVOID, where do you get this word omnibenevolent from,

*sigh* yet again godschild shows his ignorance of his own religion. Of course the word "omni benevolence" isnt in the bible, but omni benevolence means "infinite and perfect goodness, justice, and kindness", which is spoken of many times in the bible..if you just took the time to read it.

The idea of God's omnibenevolence in Christianity is based on Psalm 18:30, "As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him."

It is also supported by Psalm 19:7, "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple."

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Samuel 22:31
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

1 Kings 8:60-61
60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else. 61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

Job 37:16
Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
(I might not know how to "balance clouds" in the sky..by Jesus does..careful, they may tip! LMFAO)

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 138:8
The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

yes God is benevolent but sometimes (especially) when there is judgement involved God may not seem to be benevolent.

But that goes DIRECTLY against the scripture I just posted. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." The book of Revelations is very precise about what happens to those who change the word of the lord around like you just did. It says they will add to their miseries in the lake of fire, and those who subtract from the word of the lord will subtract their name from the book of life.

Now do not misunderstand, I'm not saying this awful disaster was judgement from God, I do believe this earthquake was part of what happens on this planet. Yes I do believe that God could have stopped this event, that however did not happen for what ever reason and I guess you'll have to ask God why. As for why doesn't He stop natural disasters, how do we know He hasn't, when and if He does we would never know because it never happened.

God cant stop natural disasters because he is nothing more than a fictional character..DUH! Why do you think we are asking you these questions? We are trying to get you to realize the only answer for ALL of them is to admit that Jehovah and Jebus are fictional.

[Minimalist]

That makes ZERO sense

Sense is a not a big component of G-C's godly outlook, Rev.

[reverendjeremiah]

You need to get out into the real world of christians, you might find that they are looking at the world in cold, hard facts. As for the walking dead they would be all nonbelievers like yourself.

There is no such thing as "the real world of christians". There is merely just "the real world". Christianity holds no trademarks on reality, the world, philosophy, religion, goodness, kindness, hatred, hell or heaven. Cold hard facts are that the cookie they give you during communion actually turns into the flesh of Jesus? The wine actually turns into blood? Those are cold hard facts? Plain and simple, those who choose to walk in faith rather than of this world are admiting that this world is absurd, and have therefore commited intellectual suicide by taking their leap of faith to escape the absurdity rather than embrace it for what it is..to embrace the truth no matter how frightening. THAT is cold hard facts. Look up at the night sky, and instead of going in awe over the shiney, sparkly diamond thingeys in that night sky, take a notice of how huge, cold and dark that minute fraction of the universe is that you can see. The vast majority of this cosmos is cold, dark, nothingness. THAT is cold, hard facts.

OnlyNatural, have you ever be in a church setting, it does not sound like it from your response? If you were rescued from a life threatening event would you thank the person who saved you even though others may have died, I think you would and I know I would.

Typical christian dodge. Compare an all powerful and perfect deity with frail, fallable humans. If a human did as such and was unable to save the others, I would thank him. If a human was able to save the others but refused, I would think less of the person..i would be a bit freaked at him. But an all perfect, all powerful god who can snap his fingers and save everyone at once? Your standards of "perfect" are so very, very low. No wonder you are a theist. Your standards are damn near rock bottom.

God could have saved every single person with the snap of his finger. Why didnt he? Because he just wasnt powerful enough to save them, not perfect enough to save them, he only had enough power to save a handful and let 10,000 die? Because he wanted them all to die a horrible and violent drowning?..or he is merely a fictional character?

So why is thanking God any different? Thanking God for ones life in an event such as this is only natural (no pun intended) for christians, however they did not stop there I'm sure, they have and are praying for the families and friends who have lost loved ones and are praying for those who need to be rescued.
I would say that the christian churches in Japan are already giving aide to those in need and helping in any way possible, I know that the churches from my area sent volunteers to the victims of Katrina and they where some of the first to arrive to that disaster.

I am well aware of what some of the Christians do when natural disasters like this happen. I know how strings are attached to the aid they give, I know how Christians will kidnap the little children over there like they did in Haiti and other places. I know they take the donation money and buy bibles with it and hand bibles instead of food out to the people. I know some churches actually do nice things with no strings attached as well. I also listen to those christians on yahoo talk about Katrina, and all the Ni**ers being brute beasts. I listen to your fellow christians. I hear them right now using Japan to make Katrina look bad for racist reasons. Dont even dare say they arent true christians either.

Please don't think of christians as selfish just because we are grateful that God spared lives, I would say that a number of christians died in the disaster also, for all you know God may have spared the lives of many nonbelievers and I personally believe He did. Many christians in America and around the world are giving of their time to pray for the victims of this disaster and the amount of money and goods donated to the relief effort will be awesome and all this is a good thing and guess what no strings will be attached. So you see God is working to help the people of Japan, christian and nonchristian alike, He is doing this through the hearts of His people.

"giving of your time to pray" is a huge waste of time. Its like me saying; "Im playing my xbox 360 for the victims of Japan right now!" and then expect you to pat me on the back and say good things about me for doing it. some will attach many strings. Some will just attach just a few, some will attach none. Either way, not a single thing you said has any proof whatsoever that god even exists, much less is doing work helping out the people of Japan.
Min save your words and time we know what you think....God doesn't exist.
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