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Free will
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 (April 1, 2016 at 11:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If your actions are dependent upon something other than your "choosing"...in what way are they free? If you can only turn left, in what sense did you -choose- to turn left? If I can only turn left? Wrong. I can turn left, right, drive front, backwards. I choose to turn left. I chose to do it. RE: Free will
April 2, 2016 at 3:43 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2016 at 3:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Assert less, establish more. "Choosing" doesn't help unless it's somehow free. Choose all day, refer to things you chose, and you still won't have established the freedom of your will, only that you choose things. The question remains. Could you choose otherwise?
(obviously the sense in which you "chose" is the sense in which you equivocate the term with free will, and so you assume your conclusion)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (March 26, 2016 at 10:55 am)dyresand Wrote: So get this god is all knowing he knew humanity would fall he knows what everyone at any given point and time would be doing God made Adam and Even sinless, and they did not have to fall from grace. They chose to do so despite the warning that they had been given about the consequences of disobeying God. God was surprised by their decision; He knew what they would choose before He made the universe. However, He also knew that He would send His own Son to remedy the situation. However, God's foreknowledge does not prevent us from choosing freely; He simply knows the outcome ahead of time.  RE: Free will
April 2, 2016 at 5:24 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2016 at 5:25 pm by Jehanne.)
(April 2, 2016 at 5:16 pm)athrock Wrote: However, God's foreknowledge does not prevent us from choosing freely; He simply knows the outcome ahead of time. Not all theologians agree with your assessment. If god has perfect knowledge or even "middle" knowledge, then he/she/it knows what choices that we are going to make, when means that we must make those choices; we're fated to. We could only "free chose" that which god knows we will chose. (April 2, 2016 at 5:24 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(April 2, 2016 at 5:16 pm)athrock Wrote: However, God's foreknowledge does not prevent us from choosing freely; He simply knows the outcome ahead of time. So they say. 
(April 2, 2016 at 7:11 pm)athrock Wrote:(April 2, 2016 at 5:24 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Not all theologians agree with your assessment. If god has perfect knowledge or even "middle" knowledge, then he/she/it knows what choices that we are going to make, when means that we must make those choices; we're fated to. We could only "free chose" that which god knows we will chose. I don't really care; I think that it's all a bunch of gobbledygook. (April 2, 2016 at 3:43 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Assert less, establish more. "Choosing" doesn't help unless it's somehow free. Choose all day, refer to things you chose, and you still won't have established the freedom of your will, only that you choose things. The question remains. Could you choose otherwise? Choose as in choose from a set of actions that I could perform. I have to establish the freedom of my will? Don't you think it's obvious the way I am free to choose from a set of actions?  (April 2, 2016 at 5:16 pm)athrock Wrote:(March 26, 2016 at 10:55 am)dyresand Wrote: So get this god is all knowing he knew humanity would fall he knows what everyone at any given point and time would be doing Adam and Eve had no free will their fall from grace would have happen regardless.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe> (April 3, 2016 at 12:24 am)dyresand Wrote:(April 2, 2016 at 5:16 pm)athrock Wrote: God made Adam and Even sinless, and they did not have to fall from grace. They chose to do so despite the warning that they had been given about the consequences of disobeying God. Humans were given free will from the beginning. There are forces at work in the duality of love and hate, light and dark. It was lucifer who tempted them. Luciferian claims for example that Lucifer gave humans self awareness and the ability to make choices to go against God, or go against their best interests. This is a really interesting book (in PDF) to read about Luciferianism and Satan in the battle being waged in the material world to affect the spiritual: SATAN, PRINCE OF THIS WORLD Another interesting perspective on free will from those that have died and come back after learning about the other side: http://www.near-death.com/science/resear...tence.html  (March 26, 2016 at 10:55 am)dyresand Wrote: So get this god is all knowing he knew humanity would fall he knows what everyone at any given point and time would be doing Finally! one of you gets it. however you got there the wrong way. Simply put, the bible nor God ever says we have free will. 'Free will' is a Greek philosophy that some well meaning pope/priest tried to assimilate. The bible tells us we are slaves. Either to sin and the consequence of sin or to God where according to Christ His burden is easy and yoke is light. |
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