Transexuals

[robvalue]

He's saying he has a right to inspect everyone's junk who dares to go into the same toilet as him. I wonder how he'd feel if someone demanded to see his?

He's continuing to equivocate mental illness with mental incompetency, even though the subject of our discussion isn't even a mental illness.

Even if it was, his point is still wrong.

Discussing with Drich is absolutely pointless, I'm just correcting misinformation for those at home.

[LadyForCamus]

Yeah, he's built up a towering straw man argument here, and apparently is going to stand by it until every last brick is scattered on the ground.

[Drich]

What this entire thread boils down to is, it makes Drich feel disgusted and uncomfortable to imagine having to share a bathroom with a transexual.  Unfortunately for him, no one here gives a shit.  

no, thats what small minded people want it to boil down to so they do not have to acknowledge the larger social issues.

The problem with small minded people is they tend to think wide left, and when someone does not agree with their wide left programming they try and play the race/bigotry card.

Typical kill the messenger (by labeling the messenger someone acceptable to hate or be intolerant against) which allows the self righteous left winger to feel justified in dismissing the message.

Wake up, this isn't 1999 anymore, and you are not Bill Marr. It's time to try and learn to think for your self. I listed a whole long list of reason why legislation that supports a minority of a minority is not good for the people in this or another country. I've also repeatedly said that transsexuals are not at the core of my disagreement with this action, it is those looking to exploit this allowance or loop hole to prey on the opposite sex while they are in a vulnerable position.

What I did say that pertains to transsexuals is this will also enable those who suffer from GID that go untreated (which according to the Mayo clinic is the vast majority) will be enabled to put off treatment even longer.

[Drich]

There's a porn niche that disagrees with you.

There's also Asian porn. And? You won't see a bathroom packed with transexual men who want to hear women pee. You get the idea.
ETA: *transexual women

Again, it's not the transexuals that this law exposes women and children to. It's the warp minded pervert who has no problem putting on a dress so he can be in that stall next to you or your daughter, or worse yet plant a camera. Are you so nieve as to think only a transgendered person would be so bold as to wear womens clothing to enter a bathroom?

[Drich]

If it's only Drich arguing on this thread any more then it's not worth responding because he never learns.

It seems though that right wing Christians have lost the fight against gay rights and have chosen a new battleground, this time against a more vulnerable segment of society. I do find it heartening that so many people on these forums are so accepting of this medical condition.

The ignorant and the bigots here have argued that transsexuals should just accept themselves for who they are. But what they don't realise is that the whole process of transitioning is about accepting yourself to a degree that no one else has to ever go through. You may know from an early age what is wrong, but that doesn't mean to say that you accept it. Lots of transsexuals deny their true self in different and often disastrous ways. You don't need to look at gender identity to see how repression can really screw someone up. It is denying who you are that brings about the mass of psychological problems. Some just shut down and stop functioning as humans or kill themselves instead.

Then you need to come out to your friends and family who will be shocked at the news and will deny that it's the case. They will tell you that you will make an ugly woman or won't be ale to pass because they can't imagine you any differently. Things are better now that there is wide spread acceptance that the condition even exists, but just ten or twenty years ago most people didn't even know anything about it except what sleazy tabloids reported about it looking to titillate its readers. Or the mainstream media making you the go-to butt of jokes. You have to justify your very being to those closest to you who will most likely be in denial. You need to rely on friends and family for support through the most difficult time in your life. Studies show that successful suicide rates are highest amongst those who try to transition who do not have a supportive family. And bear in mind that attempted suicide rates are 41% for trans, compared to 20% for LGB and less than 5% for the rest of the population.

You then need to justify your very being to psychiatrists in order to obtain the means in which to transition. Historically many of these have been hostile even to the very concept of transsexuality. And professionals, like Zucker, Bailey and Dredger who have advocated conversion therapy, hold the key to your future. Without them, there won't ever be a you. You don't just need self acceptance, you need to have performed the utmost levels of self introspection and have utter confidence in who you are as a person because these people will be grilling you, looking for signs of doubt and any other reason to not give you the medical care that you need.

Then when you start to transition, the real struggle begins. People may be able to accept someone who passes in every way as a woman or a man, but they are certainly less accepting of those who do not. You need to live full time in your chosen gender for at least a year before you get reassignment surgery. In reality some psychiatrists don't even give you the hormone therapy to allow you to do this so there is no hope of passing. In practice it takes many more years in which you need to live full time and pre-op, unable to fully interact in your chosen gender because some part of your flesh must be kept secret.

Imagine venturing out into the real world for the first time when you first start to reveal your true self only to be stared at by absolutely everyone. This makes you more self conscious which in itself makes everyone stare at you. And there will be plenty of mistakes because you missed out on the most formative years as a teenager when mistakes were acceptable. Transitioning really is a second puberty, as if it was bad enough the first time round.

Then you need to justify and explain who you are as a person to colleagues. But also to bigots and those who prefer to stay ignorant  because the whole thing creeps them out. This is the stage at which you are most vulnerable and which the laws in North Carolina make even more dangerous. This is the stage where physical and sexual abuse is most likely, which Drich revelled in suggesting could happen #239. This is the stage where many people have trouble emphasising with your predicament because you don't fit in with the strict gender codes of society. This is the stage where you really need support of family because you are unlikely to have any friends. Every aspect of how you interact with other people, your mannerisms, gait, your speech patterns and voice need to be relearned to be what they should have been in the first place. This is the stage when unbridled joy at finally beginning to live your life as who you truly are can come crashing down in an instant changing to utter despair because someone referred to you as Sir or Madam. This is when you need someone to pick you up and say that it gets better.

The physical discomfort can be enormous as well. If you need to remove facial hair then think of what a couple of hundred hours of electrolysis is like, having a needle go into each and every hair follicle several times to burn it away.

And through this whole process you need to go through absolutely every aspect of who you think you are and re-evaluate it. Is that aspect of your personality or preference how you have been conditioned from birth or part of who you are? Is your gait something you have learned to stop being beaten up on a regular basis at school? Do you have an aversion for a particular set of activities because you were always taught that boys / girls did not do them? Even down to what kind of music you like to listen to.

And after many years of this, when you finally do have the final operation it all threatens to come crashing down because of some administration detail or some people finding out and thinking of you as less of a woman or man. This is why calling trans-women men, or trans-men women is so offensive. It negates years of personal turmoil, agony and effort and puts them back at square one. This is why most transsexuals hide their medical history, so they can get on with their lives. Because even though transitioning is a huge undertaking that affects every aspect of your life, you still need to move on with your life. It can't become who you are. Until you go through this process you can't even live as a person. You need to go through all this just to reach the same starting block as everyone else even though the race begun many decades ago.

And then someone like Drich comes along and tells you that you should just accept who you are and that they are merely trying to get you to challenge what you think.

See the above comment about 1999 and bill marr.

[Crossless2.0]

There's also Asian porn. And? You won't see a bathroom packed with transexual men who want to hear women pee. You get the idea.
ETA: *transexual women

Again, it's not the transexuals that this law exposes women and children to. It's the warp minded pervert who has no problem putting on a dress so he can be in that stall next to you or your daughter, or worse yet plant a camera. Are you so nieve as to think only a transgendered person would be so bold as to wear womens clothing to enter a bathroom?

What's stopping them from doing it now? I've known several cross-dressers who could easily pass the "is-that-a-woman-at-a-glance-test". Or do you suppose that all would-be perverts/rapists are so obviously masculine in appearance that they would need the cover of the transgender community to pull off your scenario?

[Drich]

Several people have hinted at a very real practical problem with trying to segregate people by genitals alone: people can lie. For example, I can just walk into the ladies' room, and if challenged, I'll say I'm actually "a woman". I have a vagina. I'm just also on male hormones and such. I've had lots of operations, making me look extremely like a man, I just haven't had sexual reassignment.

What are they going to do, insist I show them my vagina?

And this fucking garbage: "They will attack people!" But they don't. It's like, "Atheists would murder everyone! They have no morals!" But they don't.

As a side not, I'm fascinated by this idea that religion may be being classed as a mental illness. Is this for real? It's about time something was done to stop people getting away with negligence on religious grounds.

Don't be stupid. If the same bald guy who posts video's on this forum walks into a woman's bathroom claiming to be a woman, anyone with the gift of sight know your full of crap, and women will exit the bathroom or you will be escorted out.

There will be no need for a genital check.

If you pulled that crap in my place of business and insisted, a genital check would most likly come in the form of a swift kick in the twig and berries. if you double over and wet yourself then I'd say problem solved and you can go on your way.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I'm having this same stupid discussion with a Facebook buddy from back home (Lousy-anna). He is advancing almost the same arguments, words-for-word, which tells me that there's a propaganda machine manufacturing fear.

There is nothing stopping a pervert from pretending to be a woman, in order to accomplish what you claim. There are already laws against stalking, harassment that causes fear, assault, and rape. Why another law that specifically targets trans people? What would it even do except to declare that they have to walk into a MEN's bathroom looking completely like a woman?

I mean, seriously, do you honestly think that a law which bans genitals from a particular restroom will stop a rapist (or other criminal) from going into a women's room in disguise? The only possible purpose for this legislation is to express contempt for the trans community, after manufacturing a threat the politicians can "solve".

[Drich]

Your an idiot to think all people who have GID want to be a transsexual. Just like not all people who have homosexual tendencies want to be gay or live a gay life style. So to do the people with GID may not want sexual reassignment.  especially if they know they can change the way they feel with hormone therapy.

But...if they do want to transition, and transitioning is the care plan decided upon by patient and therapist, how can you justify denying them access to the bathroom which they gender identify with?

Asked and answered (youve asked this already)

Maybe you did understand what I said.. so I'll dumb it down.

If dude trades his frank and beans in for a roast beef sandwich then s-he can use the lady's bathroom.

If dude is just playing dress up/lets pretend what is isn't then he has to hold it or use the mens room.

[Drich]

But...if they do want to transition, and transitioning is the care plan decided upon by patient and therapist, how can you justify denying them access to the bathroom which they gender identify with?

The denial of access is justified because bathroom segregation is based on objective biological sex not subjective gender identity.

Drich! These guys claim to be all about science and objectivity...except when it comes to sex. Then its all about how people "feel" and not the objective facts.

Hypocrites!

This is how Jesus felt when trying to teach the pharisees.