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April 19, 2016 at 2:46 am (This post was last modified: April 19, 2016 at 2:46 am by Ivan Denisovich.)
(April 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: It's also well-documented that the Nazis had trouble killing "efficiently", at first, and tried various methods before settling on the gassing as a primary method.
(April 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: The camps were originally just supposed to hold those who couldn't be held through normal courtroom proceedings for, y'know, actually doing something illegal.
First camp was supposed to be used for imprisoning communists, socialdemocrats and Reichsflagge members. All in all camps were designed as a terror instrument [Richard Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich,s. 351, 352 of Polish edition].
(April 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Death was a sort of "beneficial" side-effect of the starvation/overworking, until such time as the actual exterminations began, which Hitler (et al) referred to as the "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem".
Extermination begun with invasion of Poland, though it was Polish intelligentsia that was targeted at first [Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands. Europe between Hitler and Stalin, s. 148 of Polish edition]. That does not mean that Jews weren't being killed though.
(April 18, 2016 at 3:39 pm)abaris Wrote: It's always worthy to point out that jews weren't the only ones being on the extermination radar. That's the only issue I have with the Holocaust narrative. It doesn't do the overall inhumane nature of the regime any justice and adds insult to injury to all the other victims. Of course, the largest homogenous group have been jews, but Sinti and Roma have been nearly as efficiently exterminated as other and less known groups.
Term "Holocaust" is used to describe Nazi policy towards Jews and in wider meaning also towards other nations so narrative easily can focus on one particular group of victims, depending on what writer have in mind when he is using the term. But in good literature of the subject Sinti and Roma aren't being neglected. Books about T4 aktion also are available.
As for inhumane nature of regime I think that Evans, Snyder, Kershaw, Burleigh or Longerich are presenting it rather well.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
If the intent was to kill all of the Jews why go through the trouble of building all of those concentration camps, making prisoner uniforms, staffing the camps with guards, and feeding them for years? I know the Nazis were stupid but doing all of that if the intent to was kill them is just retarded.
Hitler was a Catholic and he spent a lot of time around a gang of Catholic priests. What's one of the basic tenets of Christianity? The Jews' rightful place is the "holy land". I posted evidence that the Zionist plan was to get the German Jews to move to Palestine. Between the wars they tried all kinds of schemes to get them to move there. Various groups collected money to buy them land there. The English gave them citizenship there as soon as they got off the boat. A few went but the majority simply wasn't interested in making the move. Hitler did his part by lighting a flame under their asses but they still wouldn't leave. And then the war broke out.
So Hitler was stuck with a bunch of Jews that he had been trying to shoo out of the country for years. The Zionists had incited them to become domestic enemies so they couldn't be trusted during the war. Then the Nazis built a lot of concentration camps (just like the US and Canadians did) and tossed the Jews in them. Of course they killed a few but countless others are still alive and kicking this very minute.
Hell, if Hitler had wanted to kill them he could have had the SS cut their throats, hit them upside their heads with mallets, used them as cannon fodder against the Russians, or put them in the cities so that the Allies would firebomb them. Instead they were lounging about in the countryside far from bombs and conflict. Some got skinny but even so they survived their lockup.
Therefore, the BS that the Nazis were trying to kill all of the Jews is just a propaganda fairy tale so that they can guilt-trip the West into forking over the loot to Israel. Herzl got what he wanted, a Jewish State, and the dummies in the West are still paying for it. They are so fearful that people will wise up that in some countries they have made it a crime to even discuss their lie.
I know you are fearful of bursting into flames but read Theodor Herlz's "The Jewish State" https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...erzl2.html, the biblical fairy tale, the New York Times archives (it has countless articles recording daily events. There's a fee for some of them). And listen to the BS that the Zionist preachers, like John Hagee, spew. And read about Pope Piux XI = "The Pope told Mussolini that the church had long seen the need to "rein in the children of Israel" and to take "protective measures against their evil-doing". The Vatican and the fascist regime had many differences, but this they had in common." http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/ma...zer-review
And don't forget, the Western bankers funded the Nazis.
Quote:The camps raison d etre changed over time. They started off as work camps, with the jews etc being worked to death making the stuff the Nazis needed, but they later transformed into death camps with camps such as Sobibor and Treblinka having no purpose but the industrialised killing of jews. They were cynical killing machines consisting of nothing but a mock train station, "shower rooms" next to the mass graves. (a small camp was adjacent for the jews used to bury the dead and sift through the belongings of the slaughtered masses).
The Nazis released prisoners from Treblinka after they had completed their sentences.
April 19, 2016 at 4:38 am (This post was last modified: April 19, 2016 at 4:39 am by Wyrd of Gawd.)
(April 19, 2016 at 2:46 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:
(April 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: It's also well-documented that the Nazis had trouble killing "efficiently", at first, and tried various methods before settling on the gassing as a primary method.
(April 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: The camps were originally just supposed to hold those who couldn't be held through normal courtroom proceedings for, y'know, actually doing something illegal.
First camp was supposed to be used for imprisoning communists, socialdemocrats and Reichsflagge members. All in all camps were designed as a terror instrument [Richard Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich,s. 351, 352 of Polish edition].
(April 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Death was a sort of "beneficial" side-effect of the starvation/overworking, until such time as the actual exterminations began, which Hitler (et al) referred to as the "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem".
Extermination begun with invasion of Poland, though it was Polish intelligentsia that was targeted at first [Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands. Europe between Hitler and Stalin, s. 148 of Polish edition]. That does not mean that Jews weren't being killed though.
(April 18, 2016 at 3:39 pm)abaris Wrote: It's always worthy to point out that jews weren't the only ones being on the extermination radar. That's the only issue I have with the Holocaust narrative. It doesn't do the overall inhumane nature of the regime any justice and adds insult to injury to all the other victims. Of course, the largest homogenous group have been jews, but Sinti and Roma have been nearly as efficiently exterminated as other and less known groups.
Quote:Term "Holocaust" is used to describe Nazi policy towards Jews and in wider meaning also towards other nations so narrative easily can focus on one particular group of victims, depending on what writer have in mind when he is using the term. But in good literature of the subject Sinti and Roma aren't being neglected. Books about T4 aktion also are available.
As for inhumane nature of regime I think that Evans, Snyder, Kershaw, Burleigh or Longerich are presenting it rather well.
First camp was supposed to be used for imprisoning communists, socialdemocrats and Reichsflagge members. All in all camps were designed as a terror instrument [Richard Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich,s. 351, 352 of Polish edition].
Extermination begun with invasion of Poland, though it was Polish intelligentsia that was targeted at first [Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands. Europe between Hitler and Stalin, s. 148 of Polish edition]. That does not mean that Jews weren't being killed though.
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As for inhumane nature of regime I think that Evans, Snyder, Kershaw, Burleigh or Longerich are presenting it rather well.
Who gives a fuck? Today's Israeli Jews do hide behind the Holocaust far too much to excuse what their right wingers do, not all Jews, but far too many, in provoking fights, to excuse land grabs. Same shit European settlers did with Native Americans. But that still would not justify what Hitler did to Jews.
I am sick of the isms and race and "he started it" crap, all that is are points of view and Muslims and Christians all play victim too and that allows others to hide behind real victims to justify cruelty in response.
Fuck the words "Jew" and "Muslim" and "Christian", we are still all humans regardless. And pointing to the others transgressions does not, nor should ever excuse more transgressions in response. The core reason these three cannot get along is simple. Regardless of all the claims of being peaceful or wanting peace, they all set up social pecking orders based on a tribal book that respectively tells them the are chosen. And because of that pluralism even in modern Israel and the west, is still held hostage by that concept.
No, don't fucking blame Jews or Muslims or Christians, blame the idea of tribal grouping, blame the idea of being chosen. But so what, Jews have their baggage, yes, but no group, not Jews not Muslims not Christians, not Hindus ect ect ect, nobody deserves to be treated like Hitler did with Jews, for the same reason it was wrong what we did to blacks and Native Americans and even Japanese during WW2.
Jews don't get a pass either no, but mass demagoguery especially at a political level leads humans to do very cruel things to others, and cherry picking points in history is what gets us stuck on forgetting we still are the same species.
(April 19, 2016 at 4:29 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Nazis released prisoners from Treblinka after they had completed their sentences.
Between 700,000 and 900,000 people were murdered at the Treblinka extermination camp. You may be thinking of the Treblinka forced labour camp which served the extermination camp and where the survivors of the camp came from. At the Treblinka extermination camp there was nothing but instant death for its victims in the most cynical show of deceit and depravity.
When I was growing up there was a woman next door who had been a kid at one of the concentration camps I'm thinking Belsen but I can't really remember, she had the tattoo and even then had a haunted look about her.
(April 19, 2016 at 4:29 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Nazis released prisoners from Treblinka after they had completed their sentences.
Between 700,000 and 900,000 people were murdered at the Treblinka extermination camp. You may be thinking of the Treblinka forced labour camp which served the extermination camp and where the survivors of the camp came from. At the Treblinka extermination camp there was nothing but instant death for its victims in the most cynical show of deceit and depravity.
When I was growing up there was a woman next door who had been a kid at one of the concentration camps I'm thinking Belsen but I can't really remember, she had the tattoo and even then had a haunted look about her.
As I've said before, if the Nazis intended to kill all of the Jews they did a piss-poor job. No wonder the dummies lost the war. They were incompetent.
The intent had always been to get the German Jews to go steal the Palestinian land. A few did but the majority wasn't interested. They didn't want to leave Europe. So the Zionists ratcheted up the pressure to force them to leave. Once the war broke out Germany couldn't afford to have that many domestic enemies running loose so it locked them up. And then it couldn't feed that many non-productive people when its army and loyal citizens needed the calories. So it killed a few. But in the end they did save a countless number of them and a lot of them are still alive and bitching today.
All of that happened because too many dummies believed in the biblical fairy tale about how that area is the Jews' "promised land".
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