France Bans Burqas

[Shell B]

Honestly... how does someone covering their face affect security? All it serves is as a heightened sense of anonymity whether 'committing' a crime or not. If you really want to protect a bank: armed guards are the way to go.

I didn't say that wearing a Burka affects security. What I said was, if a company owner wants to have a dress code, the Burka should not be exempt from it.

I am not against the Burka, not even a little bit. An abusive husband will be so whether one wears a burka or not.

I didn't say restricting Burka use will prevent spousal abuse, either, Sae. Nor did I say I was against the Burka. What I was saying is if a man is using it as an excuse to beat his wife, I would be more than happy to help her burn her burka and get her husband arrested. I am against the oppression that burkas represent. In other words, I am against the idea that I woman should have to cover herself based on religious or governmental clothing restrictions. Again, if it makes her more comfortable, without any outside influence, then I am all for it.

[Rayaan]

It's all about what the image is. Burqas are a symbol of oppression and religious fanatism and that is why it is seen as nocive.

I disagree because whether the burqa is a symbol of oppression or not is determined by a particular society, not by the one who is wearing it.

There are Muslims who wear it because they do it as an act of piousness and because it makes them feel closer to God. They wear it on their own will (although this is not true for everyone). Furthermore, I know that there are some husbands who don't want their wives to put on a burqa because they want their wives to go out into the world and show their beautiful faces to everyone, without covering anything, and yet, their wives still want to wear it.

Also, the fact that so many Muslim women in France are completely against the burqa ban is proof that the object is NOT an oppression for them. Some are even willing to go to jail instead of taking it off. So, I think this is a way of telling the government that being locked up in jail is less of an oppression for them than wearing a burqa. lol.

On the other hand, here in America I see many Muslim women who do comply by the dress codes of their workplace. They really don't make it a big deal to cover their faces. For example, my mother doesn't wear the burqa and my father doesn't force her to wear it either. It's her own decision to wear it or not. And I would estimate that only 10 to 20 percent of the female Muslims in America wear the burqa even outside the workplace, and further, most of them only cover their hair (with a hijab), not the whole face and the rest of the body (unlike with a burqa).

[Violet]

I didn't say that wearing a Burka affects security. What I said was, if a company owner wants to have a dress code, the Burka should not be exempt from it.

Perhaps you didn't, but it seems to be a main point of a lot of people in this thread. 0.o

If there is a dress code (which I for one, absolutely despise outside of a deadly workplace (military, construction)), then I agree that it should not be exempt

I didn't say restricting Burka use will prevent spousal abuse, either, Sae. Nor did I say I was against the Burka. What I was saying is if a man is using it as an excuse to beat his wife, I would be more than happy to help her burn her burka and get her husband arrested. I am against the oppression that burkas represent. In other words, I am against the idea that I woman should have to cover herself based on religious or governmental clothing restrictions. Again, if it makes her more comfortable, without any outside influence, then I am all for it.

A man who uses such a thing as a burka as an excuse to beat his wife is likely a man who would use anything she does as an 'excuse' to beat her.

The burka only represents oppression in strongly muslim countries around the middle east and istans... in france it might well make a woman as 'comfortable' as a nun's robe.

[Minimalist]

You know as well as I do Min that some of the americans call the French "Cheese eating surrender monkeys."

Yes, Rev....I also know that Republican members of Congress insisted that the cafeteria change the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" because...... because.... well, because they were fucking morons.


BTW, the French were right about Iraq...and I still call them French Fries.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2842493.stm

French fries in the House of Representatives' cafeterias will now be known as "freedom fries" as part of a Republican protest at France's opposition to a war on Iraq.

Republican representative Bob Ney, whose committee is in charge of the eateries, said the action was "a small but symbolic effort to show the strong displeasure of many on Capitol Hill with the actions of our so-called ally, France".

French toast from now on will be known as "freedom toast".

And yes, these are the assholes who want to turn the country over to greedy corporate pigs.

[Rwandrall]

I disagree because whether the burqa is a symbol of oppression or not is determined by a particular society, not by the one who is wearing it.

There are Muslims who wear it because they do it as an act of piousness and because it makes them feel closer to God. They wear it on their own will (although this is not true for everyone). Furthermore, I know that there are some husbands who don't want their wives to put on a burqa because they want their wives to go out into the world and show their beautiful faces to everyone, without covering anything, and yet, their wives still want to wear it.

Also, the fact that so many Muslim women in France are completely against the burqa ban is proof that the object is NOT an oppression for them. Some are even willing to go to jail instead of taking it off. So, I think this is a way of telling the government that being locked up in jail is less of an oppression for them than wearing a burqa. lol.

On the other hand, here in America I see many Muslim women who do comply by the dress codes of their workplace. They really don't make it a big deal to cover their faces. For example, my mother doesn't wear the burqa and my father doesn't force her to wear it either. It's her own decision to wear it or not. And I would estimate that only 10 to 20 percent of the female Muslims in America wear the burqa even outside the workplace, and further, most of them only cover their hair (with a hijab), not the whole face.

I wholeheartedly agree: by "it is a symbol of oppression", i mean in the West. But if you take "Muslim" countries, in many of them women wear burqas (not always forcibly) and these countries also have intolerance, theocracy or dictatorship, religious fanatism, oppression, and the restriction of Human Rights, and all that goes with it.

Burqas are a symbol of those cultures, and these cultures are seen as harmful and dangerous. The only way to stop burqas from being this kind of symbol, and to stop Islamophobia as a whole, is for these countries to stop being so oppressive and opposed to the values of the West.

[Rayaan]

I wholeheartedly agree: by "it is a symbol of oppression", i mean in the West. But if you take "Muslim" countries, in many of them women wear burqas (not always forcibly) and these countries also have intolerance, theocracy or dictatorship, religious fanatism, oppression, and the restriction of Human Rights, and all that goes with it.

Burqas are a symbol of those cultures, and these cultures are seen as harmful and dangerous. The only way to stop burqas from being this kind of symbol, and to stop Islamophobia as a whole, is for these countries to stop being so oppressive and opposed to the values of the West.

You're right, some of the Muslim countries take it a little too far in pushing their religious ideals onto others. Do I approve of the hateful way they look at the West? Absolutely not.

[reverendjeremiah]

It's all about what the image is. Burqas are a symbol of oppression and religious fanatism and that is why it is seen as nocive.

I disagree because whether the burqa is a symbol of oppression or not is determined by a particular society, not by the one who is wearing it.

There are Muslims who wear it because they do it as an act of piousness and because it makes them feel closer to God. They wear it on their own will (although this is not true for everyone). Furthermore, I know that there are some husbands who don't want their wives to put on a burqa because they want their wives to go out into the world and show their beautiful faces to everyone, without covering anything, and yet, their wives still want to wear it.

Also, the fact that so many Muslim women in France are completely against the burqa ban is proof that the object is NOT an oppression for them. Some are even willing to go to jail instead of taking it off. So, I think this is a way of telling the government that being locked up in jail is less of an oppression for them than wearing a burqa. lol.

On the other hand, here in America I see many Muslim women who do comply by the dress codes of their workplace. They really don't make it a big deal to cover their faces. For example, my mother doesn't wear the burqa and my father doesn't force her to wear it either. It's her own decision to wear it or not. And I would estimate that only 10 to 20 percent of the female Muslims in America wear the burqa even outside the workplace, and further, most of them only cover their hair (with a hijab), not the whole face and the rest of the body (unlike with a burqa).

The hijab can look rather sexy in my opinion, depending what it is made of, and how she artistically and playfully wraps it. Is she letting a little hair out? Does it's color match her eyes? Is the material a good choice to match her clothing? I can dig that. I am NOT being closed minded on this subject.

I dont mind the hijab (as long as it is voluntary), its just that burka. When I think of "Burka" I think of those nasty blue bedsheets with "bars" covering the eye hole in Afghanistan, or those black burkas they use in Saudi Arabia. Im not talking about a see through veil, or a see through burka..(mmm..thats a different story)The black ones look better than the blue in my opinion..but believe me when I say my opinion of both are VERY LOW. In fact I get a bit pissed seeing them, and its NOt directed at the women. I personally do not agree with you when you say it isnt about holding the woman down. I can look at the burka and see for myself that it is oppressive.



This is NOT how you treat women, or ANYONE..no, fuck the egg shells..MOST ESPECIALLY THE WOMEN! Women have had a bad rap for thousands and thousands of years. Its time we stopped shit like this and let them control their own lives. They are our mothers, sister, aunts, and neices..they are our lovers and friends. They are our teachers, co-workers, and possible life saviors. How can we stand aside and allow a woman to be stoned for being in the company of an unrelated man?

DISGUSTING

I am not saying you condone this Rayann. Like I have said before. You are one of the cool Muslims. In fact you are the coolest one I have met so far. Thanks for letting me rant.

[the6dead]

I have no problems with women wearing burqas as long as it is of her own will, but I also believe that businesses should have the right to prohibit the wearing of burqas in their facilities.
--->update<---
France issues out first fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13050445

[Anomalocaris]

So long as government at a given level is deemed right to have the power to ban nudity in any public environment, it should also have the right to ban the burqas in any public environment. If not, and such power is to be stripped from the government, so to speak, in steps, then it is far better to strip the government of the power to ban nudity first than to strip it the power to ban the burqas first.

[the6dead]

pat robertson on the burqa ban.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ro...ack-africa