Does God Exist: The Argument From Evil?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Mien Kampf was all hogwash (and extremly dry) but that does not mean we can not learn something from the writer through it. Why believe in anything? Just because there are some bad bits doesn't mean there are some good bits. Who can argue with the Ten Commandments? As far as moral codes go, it is a pretty fair attempt. There may be flaws, but you try coming up with a moral code which is as relevent today as it was 3000 years ago.

I can (and indeed have) argued that the 10 commandments are inapplicable today, I'm an ex-Rat Catcher so I'll cite the Catholic commandments (I believe the major difference is that not bearing false witness is excluded ... dunno why):

I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.

Honour thy Father and thy Mother.

Thou shalt not kill.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

From a non-religious POV commandments 1 to 3 are completely & utterly irrelevant to everyday life so as atheists (or indeed any non-Christian) we can easily reject them.

Honouring your father and mother is fine assuming they aren't scumbags (too simplistic). To say killing is wrong is too simplistic because whether kill is acceptable in self-defence/ defence of others is debatable (again too simplistic). Adultery is another one that I'd say is debatable at times ... I'm not for one moment sanctioning everyone having affairs at will I simply maintain that under certain circumstances it may not only be acceptable it may well be the right thing (yet again too simplistic). Not stealing is (once again) too simplistic, if my family were starving you can bet I would steal! I generally believe that honesty is the best policy but it doesn't deal with "white lies" or lies told in the interest of not being cruel, sure I've lied from time to time and probably will again ... everyone does. As for coveting ... it's damned good fun :-)

So no, the 10 commandments have little or no relevance to me and they are not a particularly good moral code. I don't need to come up with anything to replace the commandments as we (in the UK at least) live in a rights-based, democratic society, our laws tend to reflect current social morality and they server reasonably effectively (even if applied imperfectly) as a moral guide.

I can't honestly say I've read Mein Kampf but yes, I'd agree that it is possible to learn something from it even if it's simply that the writer was a flaming nutball ... I'm not saying Hitler was a bad writer, my guess would be that he was rather good after all he affected a nation, a continent, a world so significantly and that's not something an idiot does (nor, whether you agree with him or not, a writer of "hogwash").

Kyu

[Giff]

By the way change your religious view from "Agnostic Atheist" to just "Agnostic". You can't be both things.

A common mistake in definitions (even still made by atheists). I suggest this article: http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/sca...certainty/ , mainly because I wrote it. I started trying to come up with an argument against agnosticism over atheism (because I thought agnosticism meant no opinion or "not sure". However after reading various sources, including the essay by Thomas Huxley (the guy who invented the word) I found that the meaning of agnosticism has been lost in the public sphere over the years, but not in the academic sphere. Philosophers have never used the word agnostic in the "not sure" sense (at least nowhere I have read).

Anyway, atheism covers belief in God, but agnosticism is a philosophy that can be applied to everything supernatural. Sure, it might exist, but if it can't be properly observed or tested we might not be able to say anything absolute about its existence.

Ok, I understand now. Good to know, thanks

[leo-rcc]

Mien Kampf was all hogwash (and extremly dry)

Tell me about it, even in German that was an awful read. I had hoped it was just a bad translation, but it turns out the translation was in fact very close.

Who can argue with the Ten Commandments? As far as moral codes go, it is a pretty fair attempt. There may be flaws, but you try coming up with a moral code which is as relevent today as it was 3000 years ago.

Sorry, but the ten commandments are for the most part rules either enforcing "believe in God or else" and then come some of the most generic simplistic "well duh!" rules that were in place long before the ten commandments.Some of the rules I do not agree with. If "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods" was really enforced, the economy would be much worse of than it is now.

[athoughtfulman]

Ok, I understand now. Good to know, thanks

They beat me to it.

I thought I was fence sitting for a while too. That's when I read a book about it. It was fascinating to learn that almost everything I thought of atheism was mistaken