Proposed: The United States is NOT a christian nation.

[Godscreated]

I dare you to push the button below dogschild. I double dare ya. I triple dog dare ya!

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1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 ¶ Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? Rev. 15.4 for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.
10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11 ¶ Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
12 ¶ He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
16 The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name.

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Now, here is a great chance for you to excuse this verse out of context. Of course they arent talking about christmas trees. They are saying only heathens go into the forest to cut a tree down, and set it up so it does not move, and deck it with silver and gold...you BOUGHT your christmas tree. Its plastic, so that doesnt count...

Come on..give me your excuse...

How do you like verse 13, and the ignorance of the people back then. Lightening needs no god, nor does rain...nor does the Earth have ENDS to it. The Earth isnt flat. The Earth is round(ish). this doesnt sound like men inspired by the creator of the universe. It sounds like faulty men making guesswork on nature and demonising yet ANOTHER neighboring tribe. The old testament is just constantly demonizing the neighboring tribes and egging to go slit their throats, steal their gold, enslave their daughters and rape their women...every single time with the direct command of God along with his blessings.

For those of you not into the old testament. You can easily references to "windows of heaven" being opened for the rain. The rain and wind coming from "gods store houses" or his "vaults of heaven" or from "his treasures". Talks of a "firmament", which is a reference to a soild sky being "scrolled out" or being "spread out as a tent". Talks of the "ends of the Earth", "4 corners of the Earth", or "foundations of the Earth" of which God even brags in the book of Job that only HE knows how far down they go.

In other words, you can randomly open the old testament and will SURELY find a reference to incorrect cosmology on them.

I pushed the button and read the verses and found nothing about a christmas tree or any other kind of tree. What is in these verses, it is idols, you can not be serious can you, you thought they were decorating trees not very smart are you. They crafted idols from the trees and covered them with gold and silver and had to nail them down so they would not fall over these wooden gods can not stand on their own, they can not move anywhere they have to be carried, these are usless gods not to be feared for they can do nothing not evil nor even good. HOW'S THAT FOR AN EXPLANATION!!! Instead of trying to twist the Word of God and us it to denounce christians you should try to understand it.

[reverendjeremiah]

I pushed the button and read the verses and found nothing about a christmas tree or any other kind of tree. What is in these verses, it is idols, you can not be serious can you, you thought they were decorating trees not very smart are you. They crafted idols from the trees and covered them with gold and silver and had to nail them down so they would not fall over these wooden gods can not stand on their own, they can not move anywhere they have to be carried, these are usless gods not to be feared for they can do nothing not evil nor even good. HOW'S THAT FOR AN EXPLANATION!!! Instead of trying to twist the Word of God and us it to denounce christians you should try to understand it.

DUH, it isnt going to say "Christmas tree" in the old testament. There isnt a single mention of "Christ" in the old testament. Decorating a tree is such an old tradition. Of course they hung and carved images of their deities on it. Of course there is no reason to be afraid of them. Of course they cant talk and of course they need to be carried.

Modern christmas trees have images of angels, Jesus, The holy ghost on them. Of course the baby Jesus on that tree cant talk. Of course the holy ghost on it was fashioned from the craft of man. Of course course there is no reason to be afraid of the angels on it. Of course you have to pick it up to move it.

As usual, you not only brushed that off, but you completely ignored the flat earth, solid sky verses at the end.

I dont blame you. Its hard for a modern fundy like yourself to admit your bible says the earth is flat, with a solid sky, and foundations under it.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

[Godscreated]

I pushed the button and read the verses and found nothing about a christmas tree or any other kind of tree. What is in these verses, it is idols, you can not be serious can you, you thought they were decorating trees not very smart are you. They crafted idols from the trees and covered them with gold and silver and had to nail them down so they would not fall over these wooden gods can not stand on their own, they can not move anywhere they have to be carried, these are usless gods not to be feared for they can do nothing not evil nor even good. HOW'S THAT FOR AN EXPLANATION!!! Instead of trying to twist the Word of God and us it to denounce christians you should try to understand it.

DUH, it isnt going to say "Christmas tree" in the old testament. There isnt a single mention of "Christ" in the old testament. Decorating a tree is such an old tradition. Of course they hung and carved images of their deities on it. Of course there is no reason to be afraid of them. Of course they cant talk and of course they need to be carried.

Modern christmas trees have images of angels, Jesus, The holy ghost on them. Of course the baby Jesus on that tree cant talk. Of course the holy ghost on it was fashioned from the craft of man. Of course course there is no reason to be afraid of the angels on it. Of course you have to pick it up to move it.

As usual, you not only brushed that off, but you completely ignored the flat earth, solid sky verses at the end.

I dont blame you. Its hard for a modern fundy like yourself to admit your bible says the earth is flat, with a solid sky, and foundations under it.

Carved idols no trees how dumb can one be and the world was and is round according to scripture and the foundations were set by God the creator, if you can not see what the simple things in scripture are how do you ever hope to see the truth about God, man you are full of tripe.

[reverendjeremiah]

Carved idols no trees how dumb can one be and the world was and is round according to scripture and the foundations were set by God the creator, if you can not see what the simple things in scripture are how do you ever hope to see the truth about God, man you are full of tripe.

LOL..your book is written by men, not a god. Faulty men, who thought the world was flat and on foundations

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Explain that one while you are at it, oh mighty man of Cheesus Crust

[Doubting Thomas]

Or what about the verse where Jesus was in the desert being tempted by Satan, and Satan takes Jesus up on the tallest mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of the earth spread out below.

Kind of hard to show someone all the kingdoms of earth from a tall mountain on a round planet. Easier to do on a flat one. The authors of the bible thought the earth was flat.

[reverendjeremiah]

Or what about the verse where Jesus was in the desert being tempted by Satan, and Satan takes Jesus up on the tallest mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of the earth spread out below.

Kind of hard to show someone all the kingdoms of earth from a tall mountain on a round planet. Easier to do on a flat one. The authors of the bible thought the earth was flat.

Wondering how he and Jeebus saw America, and I do believe it was the Inca's or the Aztec's in central/south America who had some great kingdoms as well.

Meh..dogschild will just ignore it or call it a dream sequence, or something like "only the kingdoms around Israel mattered during that historical time" or some other fucked up excuse to justify belief in his fictional hero Jeebus.

[FadingW]

The really big problem with claiming America as a christian nation is that America has hardly a sparkling history.

You run into the pickle of having to explain how a christian nation supported slavery, genocide, internment camps and a whole host of other fun stuff.

All of a sudden there's a big rush to disclaim any of that activity as being christian.

The founding itself, for example, could as easily be attributed to rebellion.