Is white privilege real? To what extent?

[Losty]

White privilege isn't a law, and isn't an all-or-nothing thing.  It's a bias, a statistical reality.

For example, given a particular guy that got pulled over for a broken taillight and just warned and released, and another that was pulled over for a broken taillight, searched, and arrested for possession of drugs, what will we think?

Either or both could be white, or black.  But the white privilege is this-- there's such a strong correlation in this case between race or outcome, that it represents an unwritten rule: white guys get a break, black guys get disciplined.

So if something isn't a set law, but can be clearly seen in correlations, is it real or not?  If not, then evolution isn't real either because its purely statistical model.

The police, laws, and attitudes to white people vary in this world.

My main annoyance with the term white privilege is that it's used by privileged white Americans to make them feel better about being privileged while there's none privileged white people who are still being told they're privileged and being told certain bad things don't happen to them when they blatantly do.

It's a statistical reality that in a white majority country where the police force is white you'll be treated better.

That's the privilege of being in a country with other people of your own race, the advective "white" isn't that constant condition of privilege, it's being in the majority that's the privilege.

Would you feel better if we called it "not a minority privilege" ?

[SteelCurtain]

I'm not saying that you said or didn't say anything.

The buzzfeed article.

It says specifically, white people can walk the world not being aware of their colour.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, I'm not denying the existence of white privilege in certain circumstances but to say I can walk the world without ever being aware I'm white or of what colour or lack of colour I am is ridiculous.

It's not a red herring if I'm talking precisely about what the article is talking about word for word.

Additionally I can just walk around my local area to be made to feel aware of my colour since there's lots of Pakistani majority streets in my area.
They used to be known as white no go zones but have calmed down since.

The buzzfeed article is not the authority on the definition of words or idioms. It gets it wrong when it uses the words "always" and "never."

I thought we were discussing whether white privilege exists, not if the buzzfeed article painted it perfectly or not.

It is a red herring because we are talking about white privilege, not buzzfeed's weblist. It is a red herring because you have to go somewhere to be aware that you're a minority. The difference is that everywhere I go I am aware of the color of my skin.

[I_am_not_mafia]

That's the privilege of being in a country with other people of your own race, the advective "white" isn't that constant condition of privilege, it's being in the majority that's the privilege.

Women are in the majority, but in the majority of cases men are more privileged than women.

Privilege is not directly proportional to whether you are part of a majority. Conversely unconscious prejudices are not proportional to how much of a minority you are. It stems from your culture's history. America has a relatively recent history with slavery and had segregation within living memory. I find that quite stunning, as is almost on a par with the European country of Lichtenstein only giving women the vote in 1984.

I was very surprised when I moved back to southern England from Scotland and my now husband encountered similar kind of prejudices because of his Scottish accent. Snide comments were made for no reason in simple interactions. I've lived in England for most of my life and never realised that happened. That never happened in Wales though. It was entirely a product of the culture's history.

[paulpablo]

I'm not saying that you said or didn't say anything.

The buzzfeed article.

It says specifically, white people can walk the world not being aware of their colour.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, I'm not denying the existence of white privilege in certain circumstances but to say I can walk the world without ever being aware I'm white or of what colour or lack of colour I am is ridiculous.

It's not a red herring if I'm talking precisely about what the article is talking about word for word.

Additionally I can just walk around my local area to be made to feel aware of my colour since there's lots of Pakistani majority streets in my area.
They used to be known as white no go zones but have calmed down since.

The buzzfeed article is not the authority on the definition of words or idioms. It gets it wrong when it uses the words "always" and "never."

I thought we were discussing whether white privilege exists, not if the buzzfeed article painted it perfectly or not.

It is a red herring because we are talking about white privilege, not buzzfeed's weblist. It is a red herring because you have to go somewhere to be aware that you're a minority. The difference is that everywhere I go I am aware of the color of my skin.

I was talking specifically about the buzzfeed list.

I would never claim that buzzfeed or anyone else is the authority on what white privilege is.

I'm talking about that list because it's an example of certain people's opinions of what white privilege is that annoy me.

And I just said I don't have to go somewhere to be aware that I'm a minority, I told you that on my street and many others around my area I'm a minority.

I also said I believe white privilege exists to an extent but not to the extent of this buzzfeed list.

Hence me introducing the buzzfeed list into the topic of white privilege.

It's a red herring to suggest I think buzzfeed is a leading authority on white privilege or that I was doing anything other than specifically referencing an article I'm showing in relation to white privilege.

[paulpablo]

That's the privilege of being in a country with other people of your own race, the advective "white" isn't that constant condition of privilege, it's being in the majority that's the privilege.

Women are in the majority, but in the majority of cases men are more privileged than women.

Privilege is not directly proportional to whether you are part of a majority. Conversely unconscious prejudices are not proportional to how much of a minority you are. It stems from your culture's history. America has a relatively recent history with slavery and had segregation within living memory. I find that quite stunning, as is almost on a par with the European country of Lichtenstein only giving women the vote in 1984.

I was very surprised when I moved back to southern England from Scotland and my now husband encountered similar kind of prejudices because of his Scottish accent. Snide comments were made for no reason in simple interactions. I've lived in England for most of my life and never realised that happened. That never happened in Wales though. It was entirely a product of the culture's history.

That's true enough.
This answers your question again you asked why would you not believe a demographic if they said you were privileged. Because like in this instance you might disagree with them.

I said the majority are privileged, you pointed out that they aren't always.

I was wrong to simply point to being in the majority of causing the privilege in all instances, because it doesn't, but by the same token being white doesn't always equal privilege in every situation in every country.

[paulpablo]

The police, laws, and attitudes to white people vary in this world.

My main annoyance with the term white privilege is that it's used by privileged white Americans to make them feel better about being privileged while there's none privileged white people who are still being told they're privileged and being told certain bad things don't happen to them when they blatantly do.

It's a statistical reality that in a white majority country where the police force is white you'll be treated better.

That's the privilege of being in a country with other people of your own race, the advective "white" isn't that constant condition of privilege, it's being in the majority that's the privilege.

Would you feel better if we called it "not a minority privilege" ?

I'd feel better if people didn't add adjectives that describe specific features of people to the word "privilege" in order to portray everyone with that feature as having an advantage they might not necessarily have in all circumstances.

[Faith No More]

Have you ever noticed how the only people arguing against white privelage are white people?

It's funny how that works...

[Little lunch]

I think there's a problem with the word privilege.
Before anybody ever started talking about male and white privilege, the word had already been reserved for applying to people that we common folk used for the rich, snooty, upper class types who inherited their wealth and looked down upon the rest of us.
Now, I fully believe in all the various privilege terms used these days and their accompanying statistics, there's no debate.
It just stings to be called privileged. I can't help but think that this terminology was originally chosen to rally the forces rather than win the rest of us over.
I'm afraid I don't have any alternatives at this moment.
I hate to be the whinger without a solution.
I just think it would pay to keep in mind that if somebody reels at being called privileged, it may not be because they are racist, sexist or homophobic.
It may be just because they are not, in their experience, privileged.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I agree Little Lunch. I was thinking of posting something about how maybe a better description would be to refer to other people as being disadvantaged. After all, what we refer to as being privileged should actually be the default state that we all have. It shouldn't be a privilege to not be judged for having natural hair, it should be ordinary. But disadvantaged also has its own connotations.

[Bob Kelso]

I think there's a problem with the word privilege.
Before anybody ever started talking about male and white privilege, the word had already been reserved for applying to people that we common folk used for the rich, snooty, upper class types who inherited their wealth and looked down upon the rest of us.
Now, I fully believe in all the various privilege terms used these days and their accompanying statistics, there's no debate.
It just stings to be called privileged. I can't help but think that this terminology was originally chosen to rally the forces rather than win the rest of us over.
I'm afraid I don't have any alternatives at this moment.
I hate to be the whinger without a solution.
I just think it would pay to keep in mind that if somebody reels at being called privileged, it may not be because they are racist, sexist or homophobic.
It may be just because they are not, in their experience, privileged.

Fit my own thoughts rather well, Little Lunch.