The "Cultural Context" Excuse

[Drich]

I don't care about cultural standards or morality,

Either your a short sighted or a moron... You most definatly care about cultural standards and morality, but like most western elitist you only care about your own version of those things.

I care much more about the fact that you have no better reason to believe in your God than a Muslim has to believe in Allah, a Hindu in Brahma, and so on.

And with this statement we can narrow the field down to moron. In that you do not understand the unique differences each and ever religion you mention experiences their faith. You like the typical low brow western elitist like to paint with a broad brush and reference sterotypes when discounting one faith, in favor to what you personally believe.

While it is true the Muslim and the Hindu have nothing in their faith that allows them contact with God, the whole of the Christian system of belief centers around a personal relationship with God. Which mean the bible based Christ has the opportunity for open communion with God, without being a special priest or prophet.

You are all like children who refuse to grow up. We all have our weaknesses in that way, things we believe that we know deep down inside they aren't real or true, but some of us keep them secret for that simple fact.

This has to be top 5 out of touch post 9-11 statement I've ever heard.

Do you seriously believe those men (all who blow themselves up) 'secretly not really believe?' do you really think martyrs doubt?

And they have not been personally fortified by their gods...

Just imagine how strong one's belief would be if one had direct contact with God.

I mean, seriously, man, do you really believe this stuff? Because if you really do, then you are a little insane, I'm sorry to say. But if you're not, isn't it about time to get your head out of your ass and see reality for what it is? Do you think any of us like it? No, life is shit, but what can you do about it? Believing fantasy is the death of the mind. It dampens the spirit.

If God had abandoned me as He has seemed to be silent with you. You're right it would be insane to worship in silence.

but again, what if you were not the measure of a man the God is willing to bend over backward to work with? What if your experience of the divine was not the only experience one could go through?

Is everyone who does not live the disconnected life you live insane?

What if you were born blind, and just because you never got to see the light of day, would then, by your own standard of life judge everyone who could see what you could not insane? What if you lived in a colony of blind people who supported your beliefs?

In other words what besides your peers, and your own life experience do you have to go on, that proves to you that you are not the one who is 'handicapped' in this situation?

[Excited Penguin]

Drich, this is precisely what I meant, the Muslim and the Hindu feel precisely as you do, scriptural and such differences aside, those are simply details. You guys are so fanatical about these fanstastic, out-dated and quite simplistic ideas simply because of the religious experience.

But that is all it is, it is an experience. It doesn't tell you anything more about the world. It certainly doesn't tell you any fables about mythical creatures that created the universe and such. In that way, it is no different from drugs, except people don't usually take drugs and then end up demanding political reform that is not based in reason and generally become a pain in the ass for all civilized society.

[Excited Penguin]

And if you are simply ashamed to renounce these silly beliefs, don't be. You'll become a hero of the atheist peoples in no time, trust me.

[brewer]

OP, god considers women and children as a mans property, second class at best. Within those confines killing, raping, torture, ............... are acceptable. The mind set continues today.

[Drich]

Drich, this is precisely what I meant, the Muslim and the Hindu feel precisely as you do, scriptural and such differences aside, those are simply details. You guys are so fanatical about these fanstastic, out-dated and quite simplistic ideas simply because of the religious experience.

But that is all it is, it is an experience. It doesn't tell you anything more about the world. It certainly doesn't tell you any fables about mythical creatures that created the universe and such. In that way, it is no different from drugs, except people don't usually take drugs and then end up demanding political reform that is not based in reason and generally become a pain in the ass for all civilized society.

Seems to me, you want to quickly dismiss what you have not experienced and have no way to understand.

It's like trying to explain what love is to someone who can not know what love is.

[Drich]

And if you are simply ashamed to renounce these silly beliefs, don't be. You'll become a hero of the atheist peoples in no time, trust me.

Actually I kinda like being the bad guy...

That's what the "D" in Drich stands for.. Darth

[robvalue]

Yeah we know Drich, you're a slavery apologist. And weirdly proud of it. We're not, now matter how much you tell us we are. This has been explained to you endlessly. Just because something is happening, it doesn't mean everyone who is alive condones it.

You have to be a slavery apologist to justify your beliefs to yourself. We have no such requirements.

[LadyForCamus]

Um...well, yes.  What kind of "good" god is cool with humans stripping other humans' of their right to live as autonomous beings?  I mean...I don't understand how such a thing could even be up for debate.  Actually, coming from YOU, I can see how it would be up for debate...

Maybe... Not all humans are created equal. Maybe if you give complete and free 'autonomy' to some men they would set the world ablaze to simply watch it burn.

This is a red herring. You're correct; some people hurt other people, and in doing so forfeit their right to live completely free. How we deal with those kinds of people versus how other societies deal with those kinds of people is an entirely separate discussion, and it's not at all what I'm talking about in my OP.

So, then the question then becomes what do you do with them? Subjugate them? or eradicate them? We will learn given enough time and weekly terrorist attacks that living 'progressively' along side them is not an option.

Again, I'm not talking about how the US deals with criminals and terrorism. I'm talking about the basic human rights that your alleged God either forgot, or chose not to afford to all folks when making out his laws of "right living". Things that I can't imagine would be disputed by any rational person, including (but certainly not limited to):

*Don't own people

*Don't kill women and children during warfare

*Women are people: don't force them into marriage, don't trade them as property for goods and services, don't rape them. If a woman is raped, don't prolong her suffering and trauma by forcing her to marry her rapist.

*Never kill children as punishment for anything

So then if "WE" given all of our technological and sociological advantages can not live at peace with our enemies then what hope would a new nation of people have 4000 years ago?

The enemies of the Israelites (most of them) were only enemies because the Israelites ambushed them for their land and spoils. "You have stuff; we want it; we get to have it cuz God likes us better!" So...it's kind of their own fault they didn't get along with most of the Middle East. And considering they had a prophet spoon-feeding them all the rules on how to live and behave, they should have had a MUCH easier time living in peace than "us" today. But again, how countries deal with war and terrorism is another topic. Maybe you should start a thread on it.

Let me ask you a couple of questions that are at the heart of the point I'm trying to make here, Drich:

What kind of person would you be today without laws in place that prohibit things like rape, slavery, and killing people for property?

Q 1. If you wanted to have sex with your wife and she didn't happen to be in the mood, would you rape her? Would you hold her down and force her while she screamed and wept?

Q 2. I know you have children, but do you have daughters? If so, would you sell her into a marriage against her will to a strange man neither of you have ever met before that day for...let's say...$20,000 and a new car?

Q 3. Would you keep a person prisoner on your property for manual labor, and beat the shit of him if he tried to escape?

Q 4. Would you murder your neighbor and his family because he has a bigger yard and nicer house than yours, and you want it?

If there were NO legal or..."godly" repercussions for any of the above; if you KNEW God really wouldn't care or even notice so long as you believed and worshiped properly, would you do them? Are mortal laws the only thing keeping you from committing such acts against other humans?

If your answer is "no, I wouldn't do those things to people," then you've got a big, stinky problem to deal with: You are better than your perfectly "good" God.

[Crossless2.0]

And if you are simply ashamed to renounce these silly beliefs, don't be. You'll become a hero of the atheist peoples in no time, trust me.

Actually I kinda like being the bad guy...

That's what the "D" in Drich stands for.. Darth

Hmm, I had assumed it stood for other words.

[Athene]

And if you are simply ashamed to renounce these silly beliefs, don't be. You'll become a hero of the atheist peoples in no time, trust me.

Actually I kinda like being the bad guy...

That's what the "D" in Drich stands for.. Darth

he he hehe...

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No hard feelings, okay? 'Cause I also found you an awesome new avatar.....

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