Help to de-convert!

[JojoP]

Hey all...

I have been with my bloke for 4 years...when we got together he had no set beliefs, just that a higher power/universe type thing was out there. When we talked about religion he never showed interest in christianity or jesus, in fact he thought it was a load of rubbish but was respectful of people's beliefs as he had some Christian friends...

Last year I was diagnosed with cancer and I guess that because he has remained what he would call spiritual, he sought solace from a local church that his friends go to.

And guess what? He's now been brainwashed into believing 'god' created the universe, that jesus died for his sins and he has a personal relationship with him.

I literally couldn't hate religion any more than I do, I feel such a deep disgust towards it, and in particular christianity, I know it is wrong and untrue to my very core. 

I just can't believe they've got their claws into him, this one particular self righteous egotistical twat must be thanking jesus that he's finally converted him because he used to try regularly. 

My boyfriend even did the fucking alpha course!

He is a very vulnerable person with a lot of shit in his past and I guess the stage 3 cancer that I had only a 50% chance of surviving pushed him over the edge. Unfortunately now I just look at him and think he's lost his intelligence and critical thinking and I'm finding it hard to reconcile my love for him and my atheist beliefs (knowldge).

It doesn't matter how logically I talk to him about his beliefs, he just won't listen. He thinks that he talks to god and hears answers when he prays, albeit one word answers and that he is filled with the holy spirit regularly. 

I really really need some help, he's not the person I fell in love with but he says that he hasn't changed and doesn't see how what he believes is hurting anyone, even though I tell him it hurts me so much. To him, 'god' is much more important than I am, I mean obviously, because he gets to go to heaven and all that shit, whereas I can only offer him a normal life in a rented 2 bed flat...except I don't make him worship and obey my narcissistic puppet master ass for the privilege of doing so!

Please can I get some ideas as to how I might be able to de-convert him? Easy to read books, sympathetic documentaries etc? Mind control techniques?! Anything that might work...I want to stay in this relationship, he is a great person who's been preyed upon by stronger people who saw his need for shelter, but if I can't get the person he used to be back I'm pretty much out of here...say what you want about the strength of love, I can't envision being in a relationship with someone who is at the complete opposite end of the religious spectrum as me and being able to make it work...

Thanks humans 

[pocaracas]

Sorry to be so blunt, but... You're screwed...
I guess... The best you can do is make him see that all religions are the same and offer the same... hot air and good wishes.

There are books on the psychology of belief, like "The believing brain" by Michael Shermer, but... a believer will read that and think it's a croc of shit, in spite of all the studies that are presented to substantiate all the claims. There's always a way to reinterpret science to be in tune with the belief in god...
Maybe show him actual cases of people who claimed they could talk to god or for god.... like old Van Gogh who thought he was Jesus, at times...
Will he connect known brain malfunctions with his own religious experiences? doubtful... they never do...
Would you doubt your own experience, if it aligned with your perception of reality, even if other people were showing you alternative and more realistic ways to explain those experiences?

Some people are just more vulnerable to faulty reasoning over their brain's inner workings... and religions prey on that. At any given moment, roughly half the population is prone to it... and a good deal of the rest operate from indoctrination and faulty arguments, like Ad Populum or From Ignorance.

It sucks and I know a bit of what you're going through... the wife has recently turned a bit more radical than what I'm comfortable with...

[I_am_not_mafia]

Sorry to hear that JoJoP. You could try the Socratic method of questioning. Don't tell him that his beliefs are wrong, just ask questions that reveal how illogical they are. The problem is that people start with questions and then stop when they find answers that they are happy with. But they stop too early and ignore further questions which would reveal that they have the wrong answer.

If you do this without being emotional, or getting aggressive, no matter how ludicrous his beliefs sound to you, then he won't become defensive and stop listening. You won't get him to change his beliefs from such a conversation, but you may plant seeds of doubt in his head.

[account_inactive]

I agree with Poca.

[Alex K]

If you feel you have the need (or justification) to use mind control techniques to make your partner acceptable to you again, the relationship is basically doomed. You just don't get to do that...

[I_am_not_mafia]

People do deconvert but it's not something that you can force on someone else. There's a lot of pain in deconverting and the desire to do so has to come from the person. Whether it's because they can't cope with the cognitive dissonance, or it's just not satisfying their personal needs or they don't like the idea of lying to themselves etc. You'll need to figure out what your boyfriend's values are and this will help you figure out how to proceed. For example he might not care about whether he is believing a crock of shit but needs a sense of fellowship, identity or needs to make sense of the world etc.

[GrandizerII]

Why not just try to enjoy his company? Does it really matter that he believes? He still loves you and cares about you, it seems. That itself should be more than enough.

[bennyboy]

It may be an unconscious passive aggression-- he may know that you disapprove of his new world view, and be willing to leave it "in God's hands" whether you will come around to his view or eventually push him away. In that case, he can think he supported you, he gave you free choice, you missed the call to God, and he's off scott free without having to stick around and help someone he loved through a very hard time.

In other words, I suspect the whole X-tian thing is a front for good ol' cowardice, and that anything you say will only accentuate his guilt, make him even more flighty, and make him act even more religiously buggy. Eventually, he'll start sacrificing sheep in the living room and speaking in tongues, until you take the hint and leave.

Now, I don't know him, and I could be 100% wrong. But I don't think I am. His behavior is too inconsistent with loving support, and too consistent with passive aggression. Maybe he loves you too much, feels helpless, and is on tilt. But I don't think there's anything you can do to get beyond it except to get cancer-free; but if he's not there through that period, then you need to wonder-- not if he loves you, but if he's worth keeping around.

[Alex K]

It may be an unconscious passive aggression-- he may know that you disapprove of his new world view, and be willing to leave it "in God's hands" whether you will come around to his view or eventually push him away.  In that case, he can think he supported you, he gave you free choice, you missed the call to God, and he's off scott free without having to stick around and help someone he loved through a very hard time.

In other words, I suspect the whole X-tian thing is a front for good ol' cowardice, and that anything you say will only accentuate his guilt, make him even more flighty, and make him act even more religiously buggy.  Eventually, he'll start sacrificing sheep in the living room and speaking in tongues, until you take the hint and leave.

Now, I don't know him, and I could be 100% wrong.  But I don't think I am.  His behavior is too inconsistent with love, and too consistent with passive aggression.

Interesting hypothesis...

[Aoi Magi]

Breaking free from religion and staying away requires a very strong will, it's something like quitting drugs. It's next to impossible to have someone quit just through talks, rather they need some personal motivation and lots of support. As I see it, if you truly want to be with him you have to make a compromise for now and give him time. He most likely went that route because he was alone and vulnerable, so if you move away he'll only get pulled in deeper. Many atheists are in loving relationship with theists and are making it work. Don't push him away, rather have patience and hold onto him with lots of love. It'll take time, maybe years, but slowly you can make him see logic and reason again. Keep trying!