Faith and achievement

[The Grand Nudger]

See, i hit it from the other side.  I'd slice it into a million pieces if a better understanding helped me to make it happen more often.

Point being that I don't see a big involvement in faith there -- not that you were saying that.

Yeah, nor do I, even as defined by Benny. My level of confidence with improv doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether or not any given bit of improv is genuinely decent. Either it's off or it's not, it's improv either way.

When it's off...I just call it jazz and demand that the people around me recognize my brilliance.

[Neo-Scholastic]

“ I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” – Philippians 4:13

“If God is for us, who can ever be against us?” - Romans 8:31

“It is the LORD who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed.” - Deuteronomy 31:8
“Cast your burden on the LORD, and he will sustain you; he will never permit the righteous to be moved.” - Psalm 55:22

“fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” - Isaiah 41:10

“The LORD is for me; I will not fear; What can man do to me?” – Psalm 118:6

I can think of no secular source of strength, hope, comfort, or encouragement that remotely compares with the verses such as those above. I know atheists, for various reasons, consider the Bible nonsense. Perhaps, but it has been medically proven that placebos still work even if the people using them know they are placebos. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25617812). So I ask you this. Even if you think the Bible is not true, why not treat such verses as convenient fictions? Why not actually try praying with the preface “I don’t believe God exists…” then follow that up with “…and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” Follow the data. Trust the science. Take the placebo.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If the placebo can help me negotiate a ii-V7-I better, I'll consider it. Right now, solid practice seems to help a hell of a lot more.

[Jesster]

“ I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” – Philippians 4:13

“If God is for us, who can ever be against us?” - Romans 8:31

“It is the LORD who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed.” - Deuteronomy 31:8
“Cast your burden on the LORD, and he will sustain you; he will never permit the righteous to be moved.” - Psalm 55:22  

“fear not, for I am with you;  be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you,  I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” - Isaiah 41:10  

“The LORD is for me; I will not fear; What can man do to me?” – Psalm 118:6

I can think of no secular source of strength, hope, comfort, or encouragement that remotely compares with the verses such as those above.  I know atheists, for various reasons, consider the Bible nonsense. Perhaps, but it has been medically proven that placebos still work even if the people using them know they are placebos. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25617812). So I ask you this. Even if you think the Bible is not true, why not treat such verses as convenient fictions? Why not actually try praying with the preface “I don’t believe God exists…” then follow that up with “…and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” Follow the data. Trust the science. Take the placebo.

Setting aside the fact that I don't believe any religious claims, none of those verses are inspirational to me. On top of that, there's too much in the rest of the bible that I find horrific. I don't care where others find their inspiration when it doesn't affect me, but I am fine with my perfectly secular sources. The placebo affect is wonderful, but it has to matter to the individual. It also shouldn't be used as a replacement for something better... but that's another argument for another topic.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I am fine with my perfectly secular sources.

What are some secular sources of encouragement would you recommend? I'm always on the look-out for such things whatever the source. Most of what I've seen promoted as secular inspiration are pop psychology 'self-help' books.

[Jesster]

I am fine with my perfectly secular sources.

What are some secular sources of encouragement would you recommend? I'm always on the look-out for such things whatever the source. Most of what I've seen promoted as secular inspiration are pop psychology 'self-help' books.

Like I said, it matters to the individual. I personally believe in myself and humanity. I take inspiration from people who have done great things before me. The friends and family who are still there for me always have my back and I know by now I can rely on them just like they know they can rely on me.

Do you though. This is just part of what inspires me when I need it. If you want more, look up secular humanism.

[bennyboy]

“ I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” – Philippians 4:13

“If God is for us, who can ever be against us?” - Romans 8:31

“It is the LORD who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed.” - Deuteronomy 31:8
“Cast your burden on the LORD, and he will sustain you; he will never permit the righteous to be moved.” - Psalm 55:22  

“fear not, for I am with you;  be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you,  I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” - Isaiah 41:10  

“The LORD is for me; I will not fear; What can man do to me?” – Psalm 118:6

I can think of no secular source of strength, hope, comfort, or encouragement that remotely compares with the verses such as those above.  I know atheists, for various reasons, consider the Bible nonsense. Perhaps, but it has been medically proven that placebos still work even if the people using them know they are placebos. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25617812). So I ask you this. Even if you think the Bible is not true, why not treat such verses as convenient fictions? Why not actually try praying with the preface “I don’t believe God exists…” then follow that up with “…and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” Follow the data. Trust the science. Take the placebo.

When I was younger, I was pretty seriously into my own woo version of Christianity.  I had no interest in church or in Christians at all.  But I was VERY interested in the idea of faith-- that our beliefs (and suspension of disbelief) could manifest in the world, as in the NT idea of faith like a mustard seed that can move a mountain.  I had some amazing experiences, including a lucid dream-- I was up in the clouds in front of an orchestra of thousands, and could compose music simply by command-- "Pianos!  Something thunderous!"  When I woke up, I could still hear the music.  In fact. . . I remembered it so clearly that I was humming it on my way to the washroom, and was able to write some of it down when I got back to my bedroom.  This, in fact, led me to knock on my Dad's door at 5am and announce that I was going to university, after all. . . but to study music rather than law or computer science or the others things I'd been groomed for.  It led me to practice piano 8 hours / day for 6 months-- I had to go from Grade 6 Piano to Grade 10 Piano in that period, and I ended up passing my Royal Conservatory test with honors. My piano teachers were downright confounded by that level of progress, and were very interested in how I was able to achieve it.

So that's a pretty powerful experience, and for sure none of it, none of that path in my life that led me to Korea to meet my wife, to run my little English school, etc. would have gone down if I hadn't believed that there was something very special about the Universe and my place in it.

Now, I kind of lost the Biblical thread to all that over time as I really considered Biblical accounts and the lack of evidence, and the general annoyance caused by too many Christians saying too many stupid things about religion.  However, I can say a couple things: 1) the music I heard for sure was great.  2)  It came from inside me, somehow-- I could almost feel it tickling something in my tummy or something, it's hard to verbalize 3)  It was NOT a result of any training I'd had-- quite the opposite, I went to music school to get the training I'd need to more fully capture the music if that kind of thing happened to me again (it did, but to a lesser degree); 4)  It was definitely an automatic process by something outside my conscious awareness. I could command it in a sense-- it obeyed my general intent ("choir join!" "flutes, copy the sopranos!" etc.)-- but the notes, rhythms, etc. not only were beyond my direct control, but were beyond anything I personally had the capacity to write at that time. (I could write that stuff now, I think, but probably not with that pure fluidity). For me, this answers Rhythm and Thump's claims that I was just doing what I had trained to do-- unless they consider having heard Mozart and other great composers in the past "training."

I very much credit the suspension of disbelief described in the Bible (faith that moves mountains) as critical to all of that.  However, since then, I've had some very similarly powerful experiences when: contemplating quantum physics; doing drugs; practicing so long that I became half asleep from the pure boredom; goofing around with a self-hypnosis book; having a fever. The closest I've got to deliberately achieving a special state in music is to keep focusing on the POSSIBILITY of it-- the belief that somewhere in the brain/mind there is something dormant, and appealing to it to make itself known.

But in 100% of the cases when I really get deeply into the "zone," it just happened.  In none of them was I consciously able to say, "I want to reproduce that state, and here's how I intend to go about it."  So if someone can consistently achieve those goals with ANY method, including one of devout religious belief, then they are in a place I'd give almost anything to be in.

[PETE_ROSE]

Marijuana worked for Hendrix. Just saying...

[bennyboy]

Marijuana worked for Hendrix.  Just saying...

Yeah, for sure.  LSD, too.  I never got much inspiration from pot, but LSD. . . leaping lizards!

By the way, here's a quote from Hendrix:

"I believed in myself more than anything. And, I suppose in a way, that’s also believing in God. If there is a God and He made you, then if you believe in yourself, you’re also believing in Him…That doesn’t mean you’ve got to believe in heaven and hell and all that stuff. But it does mean that what you are and what you do is your religion… When I get up on stage—well, that’s my whole life. That’s my religion. My music is electric church music, if by ‘church’ you mean ‘religion’, I am electric religion."

I wouldn't say this represents a belief in God.  However, I think he definitely felt that music was an interface between himself and something deeper.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Actually, Benny, listening to music is great training, the same way we humans learn speech by listening to others.