Good intentions -- how much do they mean to you?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Good intentions mean an awful awful lot. It's the difference between a good and bad person. People who do harm but mean well can improve and are less likely to do harm on average even when they don't improve themselves. Deliberately malicious people are just assholes at best.

Fair point, but it prompts the question, how long is the rope you give them? Sooner or later, they have to learn from their missteps.

Good intentions are great, but the capability to follow them through matters at least as much, lest you run afoul of unintended consequences.

tl/dr: talk is cheap.

[Edwardo Piet]

I agree. I would say though that malicious intentions are one of the most horrific things in this world if truly malicious enough because the malicious person has no interest in improving. Also someone with good intentions can be trusted to be honest at least.

It's like the difference between being honestly mistaken about important information and repeated manipulative lying about important information. An honest person is a trustworthy person. They might not be reliable, but they're trustworthy... they aren't going to go out of their way to manipulate you repeatedly with no chance of improvement.

I value my honesty and my intentions very much and I value the honesty and intentions of other honest people very much too.

lol Of course bad intentions are well...bad. But, what I'm saying is ''intentions'' in and of themselves, are not enough in general. The end result of someone's actions, and how they treat you, is better to observe, than someone having ''good intentions.'' I've known people who say they have good intentions, but they did a lot of 'bad' things. Some people I think, use the phrase as an excuse. Not sure if this makes sense.

Good intentions aren't meaningless though because I mean... the expression "It's the thought that counts" when someone buys me a present out of love and generosity for my birthday but I don't like it carries a lot of meaning for me. It's the act of trying to be generous that matters the most to me, not whether they succeed. Kindness is effortful.

[Edwardo Piet]

Good intentions mean an awful awful lot. It's the difference between a good and bad person. People who do harm but mean well can improve and are less likely to do harm on average even when they don't improve themselves. Deliberately malicious people are just assholes at best.

Fair point, but it prompts the question, how long is the rope you give them? Sooner or later, they have to learn from their missteps.

Good intentions are great, but the capability to follow them through matters at least as much, lest you run afoul of unintended consequences.

tl/dr: talk is cheap.

Yes this is true.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There's a limit. At some point no matter how good the intentions it's no longer fair to expect someone to continue bearing the negative outcomes.

I think it's worth noting that people don't really have bad intentions, in a moral sense. Nobody thinks of themselves as the villain in their own actions, we always have justifications for what we do that are internally consistent to us, even if they aren't factually or logically accurate. So it's more a matter of selfish intentions and unselfish ones, rather than good and bad.

The thing about good intentions, though, is that if you (generalized you, not you specifically ) really have them toward a given person then the fact that they are experiencing what they perceive to be negative outcomes from your actions, is a factor in determining your actions going forward. Essentially, if you can recognize that well-intentioned actions are resulting in a net negative for the person you're acting toward, then adjusting those actions to produce a more favorable outcome for them should be a trivial request.

Persisting in a course of action because of good intentions means that the actions are more about you, than the person receiving them. They can't exactly be called good intentions, at that point.

Yep -- this is why listening was brought up earlier, and why it's so apt. Massaging ourselves with our good intentions, we can rub others raw.

[*Deidre*]

lol Of course bad intentions are well...bad. But, what I'm saying is ''intentions'' in and of themselves, are not enough in general. The end result of someone's actions, and how they treat you, is better to observe, than someone having ''good intentions.'' I've known people who say they have good intentions, but they did a lot of 'bad' things. Some people I think, use the phrase as an excuse. Not sure if this makes sense.

Good intentions aren't meaningless though because I mean... the expression "It's the thought that counts" when someone buys me a present out of love and generosity for my birthday but I don't like it carries a lot of meaning for me. It's the act of trying to be generous that matters the most to me, not whether they succeed. Kindness is effortful.

Think we're talking past each other, so...never mind. lol

[Excited Penguin]

I, for one, never claim good intentions unless I actually mean them. The monster some people describe here, the person who keeps going with the same "good intentions" no matter the fact that a negative outcome keeps repeating itself, is a ridiculous caricature of something I've personally never even encountered in people. I have no idea where or even if any of you did, either.

And what Esq said ignores the fact that people can have bad intentions and know it. They might still think they're the heroes inside their own minds, and not feel guilty about it, but they will be perfectly able to differentiate between and have good and bad intentions. That is a fact. To think otherwise is simply naive. If I'm mad at someone and want to hurt them just as much as they hurt me, for example, I don't delude myself about what I'm doing. I know my intentions are not good, I just don't care about it because I think I'm justified. However if I want to help someone and I fail, that is a very, very different thing. Intentions do matter. If my intentions were good to begin with, it is very unlikely that I will continue doing what I was doing if I kept failing at it. No, instead I would either try something else or give up.

Not related to this, but I'm glad to say I've given up...

[Edwardo Piet]

Good intentions aren't meaningless though because I mean... the expression "It's the thought that counts" when someone buys me a present out of love and generosity for my birthday but I don't like it carries a lot of meaning for me. It's the act of trying to be generous that matters the most to me, not whether they succeed. Kindness is effortful.

Think we're talking past each other, so...never mind. lol

Oh I thought we were agreeing. So I guess we are talking past each other lol.

[Edwardo Piet]

If I'm mad at someone and want to hurt them just as much as they hurt me, for example, I don't delude myself about what I'm doing. I know my intentions are not good, I just don't care about it because I think I'm justified.

What a deliciously charming admission.

/sarcasm

[Edwardo Piet]

I think it's worth noting that people don't really have bad intentions, in a moral sense. Nobody thinks of themselves as the villain in their own actions, we always have justifications for what we do that are internally consistent to us, even if they aren't factually or logically accurate. So it's more a matter of selfish intentions and unselfish ones, rather than good and bad.

That's strange because I see it the other way:

IMO getting pleasure from successfully helping others with their consent is certainly a better intention than getting pleasure from harming others -- regardless of ultimate selfishness.

Simply put: Helpful intentions are good intentions; malicious intentions are bad intentions. I think the whole selfish/selfless thing confuses the issue.

That's my take on it anyway.

... although, Esq, our disagreement could be semantic. What do you think?

[chimp3]

A bit late to this thread.

If one of my kids had good intentions and tried real hard growing up I would praise them for their effort.

If a nurse I work with had good intentions but makes an honest mistake , no use destroying their career.

We are all human. No one gets through without fucking up. I think good intentions are central to any humans goals.