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Information always arises from intelligence
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 (October 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm)goombah111 Wrote: or does it? No. "Information" is just our abstraction of ordered stuff. Like DNA has "information" about how to assemble a being, but it can just as well be a star constellation and find it to signify something, even it's just us finding patterns in the chaos.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
 (October 31, 2016 at 9:10 am)Sal Wrote:(October 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm)goombah111 Wrote: or does it? Exactly. I believe the OP is confused on this point. We process information with our brains, but information itself is just a vast set of characteristics of the natural world that we call that for simplicity's sake. It's there whether we observe it or not, so it's not predicated on the existence of any intelligence.
We can certainly manipulate it though.
 RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:20 am
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2016 at 9:23 am by Anomalocaris.)
(October 31, 2016 at 9:06 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Intelligence trades in information, it doesn't exclusively produce it however. Arguably all things only trade on information, modern physics says no information is ever truly created or destroyed. It may merely be rendered accessible to our current powers, or not. Steven Hawkins thought he was clever enough to conceive of an exception were information is truly destroyed. But his information was faulty. 
Well now we've got that all sorted out the OP doesn't need to bother replying.
@ The OP
You've got it completely backwards. Information doesn't always arise from intelligence. Intelligence, when it does arise, always arises from information. (October 31, 2016 at 9:26 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: You've got it completely backwards. Information doesn't always arise from intelligence. Intelligence, when it does arise, always arises from information. I'd agree with that. For intelligence you need two things. The ability to sense your environment and the ability to act within it. This in turn changes what you sense from your environment which changes how you act. Intelligence is part of a loop including its environment. You can only be as intelligent as your environment has ever allowed. Yet another reason why there can't be an intelligent first cause.
Absolutely.
wow guys. OF COURSE INFORMATION ARISES WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE!
seriously, if you spent less time arguing you would know that already. god doesnt exist, dont be absurd.
"Satan, who is the god of this world" 2 Corinthians 4:4 hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
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