Request from a Christian.

[pocaracas]

The topic is on the failings of Christians, nothing to do with theology. You have wasted the time of everyone in this thread. Now if I may politely heard the thread back in the original direction that would be much appreciated.

You are aware that your book will be biased toward American Christians, right?
In Europe, there's barely any trouble.

[Dragonspride1995]

The topic is on the failings of Christians, nothing to do with theology. You have wasted the time of everyone in this thread. Now if I may politely heard the thread back in the original direction that would be much appreciated.

You are aware that your book will be biased toward American Christians, right?
In Europe, there's barely any trouble.

Considering that I am biased against atheists, that is a possibility yes. But everyone has a bias, all we can do is acknowledge that and move on. I don't even see this as a problem. This is not a scientific algorithm. this is not some unattainable standard of so called unbiased journalism. This is a book, written by a Christian, explaining to other Christians that their actions have had a negative effect that needs to be rectified. I had admitted I am a Christian, Therefore I have the biases as a Christian. Again, this book is not on theology, im not going off on some tangent of why you should believe. Heck I didn't even want to get into a theological discussion in the first place till you guys dragged it out of me.

[pocaracas]

You are aware that your book will be biased toward American Christians, right?
In Europe, there's barely any trouble.

Considering that I am biased against atheists, that is a possibility yes. But everyone has a bias, all we can do is acknowledge that and move on. I don't even see this as a problem. This is not a scientific algorithm. this is not some unattainable standard of so called unbiased journalism. This is a book, written by a Christian, explaining to other Christians that their actions have had a negative effect that needs to be rectified. I had admitted I am a Christian, Therefore I have the biases as a Christian. Again, this book is not on theology, im not going off on some tangent of why you should believe. Heck I didn't even want to get into a theological discussion in the first place till you guys dragged it out of me.

Ooooops, that's not what I meant... at all.

I meant that the Christians that you will be portraying in your book - the ones behaving poorly towards atheists - will be mostly Americans.
So, when you write it, maybe you should keep that in mind and not generalize too much on the usage of the word "Christian".
That's all I'm saying. No more, no less.

[Dragonspride1995]

Considering that I am biased against atheists, that is a possibility yes. But everyone has a bias, all we can do is acknowledge that and move on. I don't even see this as a problem. This is not a scientific algorithm. this is not some unattainable standard of so called unbiased journalism. This is a book, written by a Christian, explaining to other Christians that their actions have had a negative effect that needs to be rectified. I had admitted I am a Christian, Therefore I have the biases as a Christian. Again, this book is not on theology, im not going off on some tangent of why you should believe. Heck I didn't even want to get into a theological discussion in the first place till you guys dragged it out of me.

Ooooops, that's not what I meant... at all.

I meant that the Christians that you will be portraying in your book - the ones behaving poorly towards atheists - will be mostly Americans.
So, when you write it, maybe you should keep that in mind and not generalize too much on the usage of the word "Christian".
That's all I'm saying. No more, no less.

Sorry if i'm getting a bit heated, I'm not a very patient person, with myself or with others. Its one of my failings and i'm getting to the end of that patience.

---

Considering that I am biased against atheists, that is a possibility yes. But everyone has a bias, all we can do is acknowledge that and move on. I don't even see this as a problem. This is not a scientific algorithm. this is not some unattainable standard of so called unbiased journalism. This is a book, written by a Christian, explaining to other Christians that their actions have had a negative effect that needs to be rectified. I had admitted I am a Christian, Therefore I have the biases as a Christian. Again, this book is not on theology, im not going off on some tangent of why you should believe. Heck I didn't even want to get into a theological discussion in the first place till you guys dragged it out of me.

Ooooops, that's not what I meant... at all.

I meant that the Christians that you will be portraying in your book - the ones behaving poorly towards atheists - will be mostly Americans.
So, when you write it, maybe you should keep that in mind and not generalize too much on the usage of the word "Christian".
That's all I'm saying. No more, no less.

In regards to your point, I don't want to claim any idea of the relations between Christians and Atheists in other countries. If I tried to focus on that I would have very little idea of the readers. So I have only to focus on america.

[pocaracas]

Ooooops, that's not what I meant... at all.

I meant that the Christians that you will be portraying in your book - the ones behaving poorly towards atheists - will be mostly Americans.
So, when you write it, maybe you should keep that in mind and not generalize too much on the usage of the word "Christian".
That's all I'm saying. No more, no less.

Sorry if i'm getting a bit heated, I'm not a very patient person, with myself or with others. Its one of my failings and i'm getting to the end of that patience.

---

Ooooops, that's not what I meant... at all.

I meant that the Christians that you will be portraying in your book - the ones behaving poorly towards atheists - will be mostly Americans.
So, when you write it, maybe you should keep that in mind and not generalize too much on the usage of the word "Christian".
That's all I'm saying. No more, no less.

In regards to your point, I don't want to claim any idea of the relations between Christians and Atheists in other countries. If I tried to focus on that I would have very little idea of the readers. So I have only to focus on america.

It's ok... It happens to us all. And you're the stranger here, so you get all the flak, which only exacerbates your perception of the meant off-topicky atheists, here!

[Mystical]

This is a book, written by a Christian, explaining to other Christians that their actions have had a negative effect that needs to be rectified. I had admitted I am a Christian, Therefore I have the biases as a Christian. Again, this book is not on theology, im not going off on some tangent of why you should believe. Heck I didn't even want to get into a theological discussion in the first place till you guys dragged it out of me.

I can't speak for your conversations with others, but I can speak for our own. You asked for examples of negative ways Christians treat others including Atheists I gave you a huge list of examples, which you admonished but said is not true Christianity. At which point I made the statement that your inability to comprehend why your brethren do what they do is and should be, the heart of the problem in and with your book. The hypothetical one you haven't written yet. When posited for reasons why your "when in Israel" debunkery fails with words from the lips of Jesus, you threatened to leave. I think perhaps, you should sit and think on this a little. Go through my examples and ask yourself why they would do these things as Bible literalists , and feel justified in doing so? They themselves give biblical reasoning and quote bible verses. Ask your Christian community where they went wrong and you went right. Ask yourself what separates you from them? Because I guarantee what they'll say on the matter. That you didn't read the book enough . Thats the point here, its not to drag you into a theological discussion about your own beliefs--its actually constructively aiding you in your plight to write a book with your stated goals, in the first place by understanding the theological beliefs of the Christians you're writing the book about. A book which I personally don't think would be that bad of an idea!

[Astonished]

So would it surprise you if anyone told you that this was a naive idea from the beginning? That's why I kept pressing you for what the whole point of your book was. A five-year-old could see that religion is leading people to failures as human beings, and we non-theists see it more clearly than almost any theist, so we don't need a book like this (especially if we're the ones giving testimony to fill it), and if your target audience are the kinds of Christians you describe, then they think they're right and you're wrong, or they'll use their projection complex to say "Oh, this isn't talking about me" even if it very obviously is saying they're failures as followers of their mass murdering sociopathic sadist. So if you weren't intending on proposing a means of saving or reforming the faith, or advocating its outright abandonment, there is zero reason to do what you're proposing and, I repeat, no publisher is going to want to touch that with a fifty-foot pole.

I normally admire idealism, but without the benefit of a rational outlook, there's nothing to respect in that. Just like in religion.

Thank You for your opinion. But all I have seen is a interrogation on something that doesn't matter. You guys know I believe differently from you, you guys know that I disagree with you. But that doesn't matter for the purposes of this book. The topic is on the failings of Christians, nothing to do with theology. And nothing to do with your guys lack of belief. All you have shown is the inability to even have a conductive conversation with someone of a opposite viewpoint, even when said topic may have a beneficial result for you. I doubt your scepticism, I don't even think you are a atheist, It seems that you are a agnostic. You have wasted the time of everyone in this thread. Now if I may politely heard the thread back in the original direction that would be much appreciated.

Thank you for proving exactly what I assumed about you from the very beginning.

[Mystical]

In regards to your point, I don't want to claim any idea of the relations between Christians and Atheists in other countries. If I tried to focus on that I would have very little idea of the readers. So I have only to focus on america.

Firstly, I think it would actually be a meaningful exercise to find out why American Christians differ from their counterparts. Secondly, most of the replies I've seen seem on par with what you or an atheist would receive if they said they were going to write the same manner of book. Quite often I've found that what's perceived initially as hostile from those on this board turn out to be constructive thinking replies meant to help you (think Sensai say "wipe on wipe off" but turns out youre learning the motions of a defense move? In truth it's a learning experience that I would never give up the ability to have. Some can or can't handle it. I myself prefer critical thinking over contented thinking any day!

[Dragonspride1995]

OP could you please repost your testimony,here in the forum on this thread if indeed it isnt copy/pasted all over the internet?

I think it's worth writing a book on the discord that religion creates amongst family and interpersonal relations. For instance when I deconverted, I had a lot of misconceptions thrown my way by my family that I think could be remedied by simple understanding and education. I'd have family members throw in preconceived nktions in their sentences to me like, "I know you think it's a crazy idea, but I think God has a plan for everyone and everything".
Looking through their eyes, they must think that I've concluded that they are indèed crazy for praying to themselves and believing in apropos of nothing! To be quite honest, I don't. But it's a really tough subject to bring up! I've had to reach out to them in other ways, like when I saw them watching that show Ghost Adventures, I sat down and watched it with them. Of course they couldnt help saying stuff like "I know you don't believe in ghosts but the documekted evidence these guys get.." -- and I'd have to stop them and ask them why I necessarily don't believe in ghosts if I don't believe in god? I'd tell them I don't know if ghosts are real or not, and I think ghost hunting would be fun, but I can't say they aren't, just like I can't say god isn't real either. I'm still actively seeking proof for both, and until I do then the jury's still out. I'm not going to condemn someone for believing in god, though. And I'm not going to take the bible or any other religious text at anything but face value: edited versions of ancient texts written at least a generation after the fact. 
As a matter of fact, Ghost Adventures to this day and hour and minute, is a bonding experience for me and my family because it's fun to get lost in possibly believing in the super natural. 

More intolerant family members like my brother, mentioned that I shouldn't come crawling to him when I'm a puke slathered corpse on the side of the highway (apparently he thought I had a drinking problem that was now uncontrolled without god in my life). For the record, I'm allergic to most alcohol and fight hard just to finish all of the drink I paid for on the rare occassions I get out to restaurants! 
He also said that he couldn't stajd being in the same room as non believers, and that my non belief was reason for why he couldn't come visit me. He also cited my mother, who is a Christian ad lesbian, as another sin he could not bear to be aro7nd, even on her death bed in the hospital having had a heart attack! 
I had a couson recently ditch her girlfriend of 4 years for frivolous violations, in turn removing this very kind heart from the life of her son, who looked at the girlfriend as his only parental role model since he'd been raised by her. "Dundee" was his father figure for the entirety of his 5yr old life, and now has zero contact allowed by his mother. She's taken back her doctrine based life as a Catholic, and the family albeit split half on her side halfsaying it's not right--is already washing off the stain as nothing ever having happened. I think thats the worst, when it comes to religionis the purposeful closing of one's eyes, ears, and mouth in matters that leave them conflicted in their beliefs. At least when I was a Christian, I believed the OT was irrelevant and I didnt judge people on how they lived their lives but rather focused on judging myself! No, that didn't go over very well and I'm now recovering mentally from the anxiety disorders that that caused. Luckily O did give up the ghost beliefs, in the emd, because now I don't go around my home thinking I'm being watched--and am fine being in the same room with my step sister, whose a witch! Had a lovely Christmas, I did. After I got my mom past the fact that I do celebrate my favorite holiday still.

Ayways theres so much more, I'll try to think of it and come back here. Hopefully you too come back and share your testimony!

I think I know the answer anyway but you are right that's off topic. As for prayer I don't care what anyone prays about, that's their business, but I don't appreciate it when they know I don't believe in that, that I think it's useless, and yet they still come up to me and tell me they will get their god to fix my body.
One; it may never work and I may never have children so even if I did believe and was naive enough that is just giving me false hope which isn't what I need. I need a friend to be supportive and realistic.
Two; 'you' sound conflicted when you say that because god is supposed to be all knowing and already has a plan. What good is a prayer then? Either he already made the decision to let me have kids or he already said no. Their pray shouldn't move anything in my favor. If I get enough of them does that tip the odds? Does he listen to just those prayers and not someone else's that can't have children also?
Three; It's rude, to me at least, to tell someone you are involving them in your religion. I know full well if I was someone that required sacrifice and chanting and I told my Christian coworker that I would sacrifice a fly in her name so she had better luck in whatever she was doing and I actually meant it she would go ballistic. Even if I said I would pray to Allah for her she would glare at me. I would love to see her reaction to me saying I was a Satanist and involving her name in my ceremonies.

1. You are right there is nothing that forces God to answer our prayers.
2. I have a argument for this, will only get into it if you ask.
3. Subjective, I have no worthwhile response.


Christians can't be touched by a demon or by the devil, (Take job for instance) but you are right she may have had a reaction toward that.

This is a book, written by a Christian, explaining to other Christians that their actions have had a negative effect that needs to be rectified. I had admitted I am a Christian, Therefore I have the biases as a Christian. Again, this book is not on theology, im not going off on some tangent of why you should believe. Heck I didn't even want to get into a theological discussion in the first place till you guys dragged it out of me.

I can't speak for your conversations with others, but I can speak for our own. You asked for examples of negative ways Christians treat others including Atheists  I gave you a huge list of examples, which you admonished but said is not true Christianity. At which point I made the statement that your inability to comprehend why your brethren do what they do is and should be, the heart of the problem in and with your book. The hypothetical one you haven't written yet. When posited for reasons why your "when in Israel" debunkery fails with words from the lips of Jesus, you threatened to leave. I think perhaps, you should sit and think on this a little. Go through my examples and ask yourself why they would do these things as Bible literalists , and feel justified in doing so? They themselves give biblical reasoning and quote bible verses. Ask your Christian community where they went wrong and you went right. Ask yourself what separates you from them? Because I guarantee what they'llsay on the matter. That you didn't read the book enough . Thats the point here, its not to drag you into a theological discussion about your own beliefs--its actually constructively aiding you in your plight to write a book with your stated goals, in the first place. A book which I personally don't think would be a bad idea! /

I just read through the entire thread to see what you were talking about. Your first post was a request, I posted my testimony and told a little bit more about my self to try to relate. The next I agreed with. Then you posted your mega thread. I agreed with everything, with a caveat of spanking.  After a few pages your next response was stupid and not well thought out. Basicly you said that Christians turn a blind eye on the sin of others. I commented on the fact that we have lines in place to fix these issues. And asked you to look into church discipline. Other then that We don't exactly broadcast to everyone on cable news that so and so did such and such. Your first post was excellent I even said so and asked for more detail so I can use it.

As for your mega post, it wasn't in the format im looking for, I even agreed with it but it doesn't help in the context of the book. I want personal testimonies of how Christians treat atheists, admonishment from families, disownment. etc etc. I am trying to make an emotional appeal to Christians showing them using their method (testimonies) that there is something wrong in the Church. A shotgun blast of Christians do everything wrong, crusades to the west borrow baptist church. Doesn't help anyone, and is off topic at best. Again I will state for the record, this is not meant to be an account for every evil done in the name of God. Asking me to do so is disguenuious at best.

[Brian37]

Well, a few of my atheist friends on facebook told me to give you guys another shot I will post my testimony. Please bear in mind this is not why you should believe, but it is why I believe.
This is kinda like a journal for me, I update it as I go thats why I like to keep it in the cloud so people can go back to it if they want and read any updates. But here you go

This isn't my whole life story, im trying to keep it concise.

I was born in 1995. To my mother Jody she was married to Tom at the time, but she had slept with my father Joseph, getting herself pregnant. She also had in the past Children from another man, Ely Cody and Amber. Because of her life's choices she relied on drugs and alcohol to get through her daily struggle. She did these while I was in her womb. Which inevitably led to mental and physical problems both for her, and myself.  Because of these problems she had in her life I was going to be taken away by family services with Eli Cody and Amber.

When Jody had me, she had help taking care of me, by Tom's mom Barbara. Who made the choice to adopt me (making me my mothers, and fathers brother, Its montana give me a break lol) And they brought me up under a Christian household, and I made my decision to give my life to Christ at Five years old.

My brothers and sister were not so lucky, they went through social services to a family known as the bakers. There was much physical, sexual and mental abuse leading them to have many of the same problems that my mother had.  

Ron and Barb were called by the holy spirit to move away to  montana on a mission, to spread the word of Jesus Christ, and to help the local Churches. In bozeman we were a part of what is called Rocky Mountain Bible Mission, which was a headquarters of operations for missionaries all over the world. So we moved from a town with a population of over I estimate one hundred thousand, to a town of a population of maybe two thousand. I was about nine at the time.

Once we got there we started to work with local churches, I got intertwined with Awanas and Boy Scouts and grew up your stereotypical Christian childhood. Because of this I was looked down upon, even in the Christian school, I was bullied had chocolate milk dumped on my head. But I made it through grade school. But it paid its price on me, I started gaining weight, hating school, and everything to do with it. Something I still despise.


I moved to public school, and because of my weight and my beliefs I was still bullied so I took up martial arts. And that gave me the courage to carry on. Along with the help of a friend I made in awanas, austin grabel. I ended up dropping out of highschool my sophomore year because I was deep in depression, I had completely rejected society. I had what I thought was the armor of God, I only let humor though, I grew very good at hiding my feelings or what you would call stoicism. But inside I was spiraling deeper and deeper into depression even going so far to contemplate suicide.

During my time with austin we had many adventures together, but we were opposite personalities, he was deep into sports I was deep into video games, but we made it work. One night we were up late playing minecraft, and I saw what looked like a skeleton hand rake across the screen, we looked at each other our faces turned white, and we looked back and there was a transparent skull over the screen. I got what felt like a kick in the gut, but the feeling didn’t go away my spine felt like it was tingling and I felt like I was on fire. A feeling that I didn’t recognise until year later.

I Re-Dedicated my Life to God one night. When I was crying the holy spirit came to me, and I felt like I was on fire once again. All I felt was joy and I know that I am saved, and I want to continue my life working for him. And doing His will.

After 2 years of trying different things I decided to get my HISET wich is basicly a GED, I had a choice of two more years of highschool at the age of twenty or to get my GED, I obviously took the smarter choice and got my GED, I went to the class about 12 days and I had passed all the tests with flying colors,  and graduated second of my class.

After about a year my dog died, and I got in contact with a woman named darianne, she was 21 at the time and I was 20, she showed me empathy, and we started going to Church together,  She was living with her parents at the time, and had a past of sexual abuse from older men. Which gave her what I would call a mental block, very similar to what I experienced from my time in school, we got closer and closer, however she was going through a divorce with a man who had left her to join the military, during their relationship he had some spousal abuse, much that I won't get into but gave her religious grounds for divorce. This was when I came into the picture, because of my past I could sense her pain and we fell into love. But we promised we would not date till the day she planned to go through the divorce. A day that her parents had lied about. They saw her as the mentally retarded child. And treated her very poorly, she started to rely on me for emotional support and spent much of her time on a skype call from her phone and the way they treated her made me furious, I was ready to charge in their and do things I will not admit. This drove us closer, and we ended up necking, kissing or what some may know as making out, she got a hickey her parents saw then forced us apart. We had planned to get back together after the divorce on valentine's day, on that day she left me.

After that I went back into my downward spiral, but this time it drove me to God. I felt his presence, but I did start to pray for death. I felt what is the point of living in this world when it is so crazy. So I started to look for other things to take my mind away from the pain, and I found politics, and dived deep into religion. I started to learn about occult practice and realised that I was in a hotspot. Everything from wiccan practice to a satanic cult of azeroth. That had attacked a local church I went to.

Before valentines day, I was hanging out with a member of my youth group at my pastors house, and somehow demonology came up. He was a converted wiccan, he believed and practiced magic. We started talking to him and his eyes went black, he went into the fetal position and his voice went very low. He was possessed, Both my pastor and his wife lept into action, they started immediately praying, and talking to him. He cried out for Jesus, and we started praying. I felt like I was on fire again. The power of the holy spirit was at work. Then their was what felt like a shock wave went off on my friend. The demon was banished to hell. And my friend gave his life over to Christ. And that was the first experience with what I knew was a demon. I knew that I was a weapon of the holy spirit.

Tuesday August 16th I heard about a black mass taking place in oklahoma, I got a feeling in my gut that I had not felt for a long time. My spine felt like it was tingling. I was being driven by the holy spirit to action. I sent a email to the main prayer group of rocky mountain bible church then I called local pastors and went to my own church and prayed with the pastor's wife. Then I went to a christian's house and asked them to spread the word. The next day I had learned that their was a massive march on the black mass, Christians had shown up and prayed, there was low attendance. And their was an earthquake the next day. The holy spirit had answered our prayer.

This is my testimony, my life's story, it will constantly be updated as I live longer and gain more experience. But I shall live for Christ, and continue fight against evil. And allow him to work through me as his servant.

---

I think some of the responses from ppl were a little rude to him, to be honest. He made it very clear in his OP that he's not trying g to preach, merely trying to write a book about how some Christians treat atheists badly, in hopes of calling attention to this issue to stop it. I don't really blame him for leaving.

Thankyou, And it is nice to meet you. I had thought I made this abundantly clear.

---

I hope he sticks around. Maybe he is just giving up this thread. I wonder what his motivation for easing relations between atheists and christians? Good will or does he think being nice is a better way to evangelize ? Perhaps we will find out.

To fully admit my bias, On one hand, Christians are shunned from society. Especially the public sphere. There is a bit of the Bible modern Christians seem to forget, it is the Fruits of the Spirit. And when they come online in places like this anonymity gives them a Big head. Furthermore "Cults" like the westboro baptist church with their "God hates Fags" don't help relations much. A Lot of times when I am debating atheists or even just talking over theology it seems that they have never had a good experience with a Christian. And the stories they tell don't exactly give me a good taste in my mouth either. Maybe I want to wright this book to make it easier to evangelise, I don't know. That's why I'm not sure if I am going to write the book or not. But for now I see a problem. Christian Bigotry and pure vitriol. I see a corruption in the church. And it makes me... well angry. The message you guys are getting, and the message we want to send does not seem to be the same. And it needs to be fixed. To be honest, I have seen this during the american election at plain work. There is a gigantic schism between what is perceived about a person or a group. And what they intend, or the meaning behind what they are trying to send. It may be just tribalism at work. But I think both sides would benefit of just some good discussion. With the book I'd like to show my side that you are not a bunch of satanic monsters looking to steal their Children away from them. And your side that we are not all bad.

---

CL what can and does bother us is that people often come in here with some sort of preconceived notion as to what will occur here. But not just here, on this website, but with atheist pages and social media anywhere. 

Rest assured if anyone as a theist, like you whom have spent long period of time here, already know by now, we are not going to stab you to death.

I think humans should be more offended by violence and death than getting offended. 

It's not a matter of his preaching or intent for that matter, it is about logic. Same with you. We've gone after you too, sometimes with the harshest of words, and you are still here and you still know we are not going to call for your murder.


To be fair, even many atheists can and do have different comfort levels as much as theists can have different comfort levels. I think it is more important to understand that everyone is different than to claim their is only one right way to converse.

If we all got to silence or murder each other because we read or hear things we don't like, there is not one human on this face of the planet that could not think, even if only in mind, of things they would rather not hear or see.  Civility isn't ever in never offending or getting offended, but in how one responds in the face of those situations.


Ultimately you can only control you, not others. In the context of this board, only the owners and admins conduct the rules and behaviors here. The rest of us as mere guests can make requests to each other and or the admins, but we cant dictate as mere guests to each other.

But trust us, we are not out to get him or you. Your logic sure, your claims sure, but not in any revenge or law context.

Well im glad you guys don't have a fantasy to act out Julius Caesar. But that's not why I was going to leave. Some times the anonymity of the internet makes it harder to have real discussions.

What do you mean by "real" discussions? 

You really type and hit submit a claim and we are really going to tell you what we think of that claim. 

If you came up to me and claimed "The Cubs won the Superbowl" what would you have me say to that "That's nice" or "I agree". No, if you claimed that my answer is going to rightfully be "bullshit". 

Do you even want to consider that there has never been anything called a God or god or gods? Do you even want to consider that humans merely make them up? Or did you expect us to simply roll over, because that is not what we do here.