Tooth Fairy Bullshit

[The Valkyrie]

Those who compare God to the tooth fairy are douchebags. I’m sorry but that is truly how I feel. Without even an ounce of shame they ridicule some of the best and brightest thinkers who take up a problem serious and came to serious conclusion. Kierkegaard, Hegel, Kant, Buber, Kripke, Plantinga, Newton, Leibnitz, Putman, and Godel are/were theists. That list doesn’t even include theologians, like David Bentley Hart, or physicists, like, Francis Collins or Max Planck. All brilliant.

Maybe you don’t realize this but it is possible to be an atheist without acting like an infantile little snark. It’s astonishing to me how such ass-wipes will disrespect the legacies of truly great men and women like Dr. King, Bonhoeffer, and Catherine Booth (founder of the Salvation Army) by pretending that their religious convictions did nothing to motivate and inspire them to change the world.

How can anyone seriously believe that the motivating force to build the very first hospitals is in any way comparable to believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus? Here in Chicago we have Mount Siani, Rush Presbyterian, Illinois Masonic, Loyola, Mercy, Saints Mary and Elizabeth, Saint Anthony...that’s just a start. They came to be because of religious convictions for which you have no respect.

Possibly true.

At least the tooth fairy has some justification for the mythology around her.

[Jesster]

Oh I get what the argument is about that, CL. I just don't think that all beliefs need to be respected. If we can't point out the flaws in a belief, how can we ever really talk about the belief without coddling others all the time? Disrespecting someone's beliefs is also not equal to disrespecting the believer.

There is a big difference between disagreeing and disrespect. Saying that Bonhoeffer's faith was in error is fine. Saying his faith was ridiculous (or delusional) is disrespectful.

I never said disagreeing and disrespect were the same thing. Read it again. I said beliefs do not need to be respected and that disrespect of beliefs is not the same as disrespect of the believer. Also, as Khemikal said (which I agree with), coddling someone's beliefs to avoid disrespecting them can be very disrespectful to the person to holds those beliefs.

[Neo-Scholastic]

All it takes is a childish disposition to believe in tooth fairies -or- god fairies.

You are basically saying that the admirable people I listed in the OP have childish dispositions. How is that not insulting?

[The Grand Nudger]

"Believing in the Tooth Fairy is silly, Billy"
-"No it's not, my respected peers and admirable heroes all believed in it, you're a douchebag for calling it silly!"

As to the above, why don't you ask jesus?

[Crossless2.0]

Meh. If people want to believe in some kind of deist god, I disagree but don't feel any need to ridicule them for that belief.

But if a grown damn adult looks me in the eye and tells me he believes that a Jew rose from the dead and eventually ascended to the sky about 2000 years ago, he's fair game. Call me a douchebag if you must, but no pewling about general vs. special revelation or any list of admirable or influential people who also believed such nonsense will make the belief any less ridiculous.

[Cyberman]

All it takes is a childish disposition to believe in tooth fairies -or- god fairies.

You are basically saying that the admirable people I listed in the OP have childish dispositions. How is that not insulting?

Even the most admirable people with impeccable credentials can have childish beliefs and opinions. I'm thinking particularly of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his fairy fetish, but he's hardly alone. Criticising those beliefs is hardly a criticism of them personally, unless it's made to be so. And beliefs should be criticised.

[Neo-Scholastic]

"Believing in the Tooth Fairy is silly, Billy"
-"No it's not, my respected peers and admirable heroes all believed in it, you're a douchebag for calling it silly!"

As to the above, why don't you ask jesus?

Nice deflection. Do you consider the people I listed in the OP childish?

(Jesus was talking about meekness and humility, BTW)

[The Grand Nudger]

I consider their fairy beliefs childish, and I consider childish beliefs to be a product of a childish disposition.  Is there anything unclear in that? Is there any room for wondering whether or not I think those people held childish beliefs or possessed a childish disposition? What are you interested in, primarly, whether or not the beliefs are childish, or a product of a childish disposition, or how just thinking about that hurts your feelers?

Thanks for being the mouthpiece -and- insult taker for god, it's good we have you around, otherwise we'd be complaining about fairies.

[Cephus]

Oh I get what the argument is about that, CL. I just don't think that all beliefs need to be respected. If we can't point out the flaws in a belief, how can we ever really talk about the belief without coddling others all the time? Disrespecting someone's beliefs is also not equal to disrespecting the believer.

There is a big difference between disagreeing and disrespect. Saying that Bonhoeffer's faith was in error is fine. Saying his faith was ridiculous (or delusional) is disrespectful.

Respect is earned, not simply granted.  Now whether Bonhoeffer has earned any respect from Jesster is up to Jesster to decide, but Jesster has no obligation whatsoever to resepct Bonhoeffer or his beliefs if he chooses not to.

[Aroura]

I remember how angry and hurt I felt when I was still a theist and my husband likened Catholic Christening and Baptism to a shaman shaking a rattle and casting a magic spell. He rarely mentioned my belief in God, because I wasn't pushy about it and he isn't always an ass, haha, but when it came to our yet to be born child, I guess it touched a nerve with him.

And the thing is, he wasn't wrong. It actually was the straw that broke the camels back. I had slowly been letting go of the idea of God, and that comparison, once I calmed down and thought about it, was spot on. He wasn't trying to be cruel, just pointing out what seemed an obvious comparison.

If I say that believing in God is like believing in the tooth fairy, the point isn't to insult, but to point out that there are similarities. Yes, one is that it seems both are somewhat childish, but I don't say this to be mean, only because that's actually the way it seems to me.

I know some atheists on here brag about not really being afraid of death, but I'll admit, it scares me. When I gave up belief in God and also an afterlife, it was terrifying. I had to rethink my relatives who had died...I had to realize they weren't watching over me from heaven. It was like losing them all over again. Then I had to accept that if my baby died, and I had 2 near misses btw, I wouldn't see her again in some afterlife. She'd just be gone. Now that she's 9, I literally tremble at the thought of her death. But you know what? Someday, she is going to die. This is 100% certain. Before or after me, it will happen. And in the meantime she might suffer with no chance of some kind of super being making up for it later.
I will die, too. Might be today, might be in 45 years, I don't know, but chances are I'll just wink out like a light, probably with some suffering and trauma right beforehand. I am less than thrilled about this. The courage it takes to face these harsh realities, to know that bad people might be rewarded and good people suffer, and that there probably is no magical make-up for it later, is greater than most theists ever give us credit for. We are maligned as not believing because it is easier. Well fuck that, as someone who's existed on both sides, I can tell you not believing is a lot fucking harder. I struggle every day with horrible realities that belief in God allows people to ignore or gloss over.

When my 9 year old asks me what happens when we die, I don't get to give the easy answer. Oh don't worry hon, we all get to live in peace and happiness forever! No. I have a harder job. I tell her I don't know, no one does. She asks me, do we just end? I have to be honest, and tell her. What would you say? It's hard so I still try and couch it. I tell her, maybe, maybe we just end, but if so there is no suffering, it's like before you were born. Not floating in blackness, just nothing at all. She asks me about reincarnation, and I tell her again, no one knowshould, it could be. She could look it up. We should go to the library and get a book on afterlife beliefs around the world. So we do, and we read it together, and a week or more later she is crying one night and I ask her why, and she says she thinks we probably just end, and she's afraid of that. I tell her, life is beatiful, and she's here now, so let's just love life, ok? And that's the best I can do to reassure her.

So yes, it's like the tooth fairy. It's like a child with a safety blanket. I was more than 30 when I gave it up, my mother still believes and she's 70 something, and a wonderful person. After her stroke, she visited with the hospital priest often. She got that love letter from God. I saw it in her room. And because she is my mom, and she is old and sick, I will not say anything bad about all that. I'll help her read the letter, or call the priest and pray with her. I won't snatch her security blanket away when she needs it most. I will be strong.

But you are adults that are on an atheist forum by choice! Here, I'll call it what it is, but still qualify that I don't think it makes anyone less of a person, after all I was there as an adult, and some of the people I love most still are there. I also know people do not chose what they believe. But if I can look back at my own self, my adult 30 year old self, and recognize the childish nativity that I dwelled in, then know that I only think others are capable of outgrowing it as well. It's no insult. I think you are all old enough to hear these truths, even if you don't like them or they make you uncomfortable.

Peace.