Why is halal legal?

[downbeatplumb]

I think it's a matter of perspective on which method you think is more "humane"? To me, slaughtering the animal vs. stunning the animal with a gun doesn't make a difference. We have to kill it anyways, and the Islamic method is to cut with a sharp knife, on the neck, as fast as possible. Also, the ritual is basically an act of sacrifice. When killing a cow, in that manner, it increases our gratitude for God's creation because we are sacrificing the animal. And we have to mention God's name right before the killing the animal.

Its a question of suffering. A shot to the head is less painfull than a slit throat.

I like meat but i dont like unneccesary cruelty.

[fr0d0]

Well you're saying Rhythm, I think, that Halal is unethical because the animal suffers, and therefore shouldn't be lawful. Yet mass produced meat, generally an extremely unethical practice we all go along with because it's cheap and we don't all get to grow rhinosorous hide to put up with the blood and guts in our faces, is fine and dandy. I call hypocryte.

[Faith No More]

Right, if animals don't want to be eaten they should stop tasting so good. That doesn't mean they should be tortured in the process though.

[The Grand Nudger]

No, Im saying, in no uncertain terms, that Halal should be illegal because similarly unethical practices are already illegal, and Halal only escapes these laws as an appeal to religious tolerance. Can I be more clear?

[fr0d0]

I agree wholeheartedly Rhythm. Doesn't stop me seeing the hypocracy tho'.

[The Grand Nudger]

Not agreeing with a set of laws in principle or in whole doesn't prevent me from wishing that said laws were fairly applied. If anything it only gives me more fuel to burn in the argument against said laws..lol.

I don't maintain that my position is morally superior with regards to what is or isn't ethical mind you. On that separate issue I can only say that consumers by and large have not been willing, or when willing have not been able to come out of pocket to improve the conditions for livestock in the industry as a whole. That has to happen if we want to both improve those conditions and continue eating meat. Organic meat is still factory meat. The inputs are just different. Things like free range chicken, or free range beef are still very much a niche industry due to the prohibitive costs of production that must be passed on to the consumer.

[Anymouse]

Australia has a short term ban on live cattle transport after film from Indonesian abattoirs was aired on national TV.
Stunning would seem to solve many objections but the font of all wisdom didn't need electricity 1500 years ago, so why change now?

As I recall in reading an ABC (Australian one) article, the ranchers there are up in arms about it too, because they will lose money. They don't care what Indonesians do with the cattle after they buy them; they are just concerned about losing money.

Here in Nebraska they use the humane method of a shotgun blast to the head.

[The Grand Nudger]

The bottom line is important to a commodity producer, surprise surprise. The shotgun shell is still more expensive in the long term than the old method of some Cletus Jr. type hitting them in the head with a heavy object.

[Violet]

Because the hypocrisy of the 'ritual' in question goes AGAINST what the law fucking stands for. That's how it affects "its legality or the process of law". I know you're a raging anarchist Sae but how can you miss that one?

Law often does this. Makes exceptions here and there. That's exactly what I meant when I said hypocrisy.

If it didn't: it would crumble in any nontotalitiarin society.

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Sae, there are laws that are there to protect the welfare of animals....even when they are being slaughtered. What is being argued is halal goes against he laws the rest of society has to follow and gets away with it purely because it claims it is a religious practice.

And that kind of defeats the purpose. Animal is being slaughtered: it's welfare has evaporated.

'Getting away with' a noncrime that under difference circumstances would be a crime is... not a crime. Halal is a religion practice, claimed or not.

Law is not consistent. And it doesn't have to make sense.

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They are under for attack for infringing on religious rights.

Infringing religious rights? ARE THEY HAVING A FUCKING LAUGH?

The rights of mister piggy here:
Are WAY more important than some shitty 'religious rights'.

Rights, rights, rights, rights, rights, rights...

My gods I wish people would shut up about them. Oh that sense of entitlement... that really does get on my nerves.

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Just saying a word before killing is as meaningless as it gets in my book.

It has nothing to do with saying words, it has to do with slaughtering the animal while it's still conscious. If we're going to eat meat we should make the practice as humane as possible.

If we want our meat as humane as it gets... why don't we eat humans?

The suffering of the dead is irrelevant as they feel nothing now.

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Right, if animals don't want to be eaten they should stop tasting so good. That doesn't mean they should be tortured in the process though.

Animals mass produced are in a constant state of torture. Their existence is itself torture. Chickens so fat they can't even walk... cows packed so tightly even old soviet russian prisons would have paused... creatures bred from day one to die. Their existence is a means to an end, they are not considered as individuals and their life is an accident on the way to producing more cheap meat.

Until you stop most of your current mass-meat production practices in the west: you have zero credence in my eyes to call Halal barbaric.

[Faith No More]

Animals mass produced are in a constant state of torture. Their existence is itself torture. Chickens so fat they can't even walk... cows packed so tightly even old soviet russian prisons would have paused... creatures bred from day one to die. Their existence is a means to an end, they are not considered as individuals and their life is an accident on the way to producing more cheap meat.

Until you stop most of your current mass-meat production practices in the west: you have zero credence in my eyes to call Halal barbaric.

I don't disagree here either. I don't like the fact that most animals are raised in terrible environments and that should be illegal too. I'm not going to dedicate my life to ending it like I won't dedicate my life to ending Halal, but when given the opportunity to voice my opinion on the subjects, I will.