Posts: 108
Threads: 17
Joined: September 19, 2016
Reputation:
6
No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 4:06 am
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2017 at 4:17 am by InquiringMind.)
I have an idea. Why has inequality in society (wealth, race, gender, etc.) stubbornly persisted in spite of many decades of efforts to alleviate it? Why has the discussion of privilege only intensified after much work to create equality? Here's idea:
No one actually wants an equal society.
How could you be rich if everyone had the same amount of money? How could you have the best job if all jobs were equally good? How could you be the best scientist if all scientists were equally good? How could you have an especially attractive mate if all people were equally attractive? If all posts on facebook were equally good, then why would it matter which ones you looked at?
In an equal society, there is never any chance to "get ahead" because everyone is equal. There is no such thing as "greatness" because everyone is equally good. No one wants this. Everyone wants the chance to "get ahead." Everyone wants a chance to climb to the top of the pyramid, to be a hero, and to be respected and admired above their peers.
No one wants equality. Every individual wants to live in a society where they, as an individual, are at they top of the social pyramid. People want high status, not equality.
What are your thoughts?
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 4:16 am
Indeed, not many people believe that everyone should have the same gender.
No but seriously, there's a difference between equal chances/opportunities and everyone being identical.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 420
Threads: 6
Joined: July 4, 2016
Reputation:
8
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 4:23 am
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2017 at 4:25 am by ukatheist.)
What Alex said ^
I don't think anyone wants everyone to be a clone of each other (how dull that would that be) but for everyone to have equality of opportunity/life chances and the removal of barriers that prevent it, as much as possible.
Posts: 108
Threads: 17
Joined: September 19, 2016
Reputation:
6
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 4:37 am
(March 6, 2017 at 4:16 am)Alex K Wrote: No but seriously, there's a difference between equal chances/opportunities and everyone being identical.
I don't think that people even want equality of opportunity. I think most people would overwhelmingly prefer to be born into privilege. Why do you think that Disney princess movies and the British monarchy are so wildly popular? Why do so many people dream of winning the lottery? Because people want privilege, not equality. Especially if those privileges came from a windfall, like being born into royalty or winning the lottery.
No one wants an equal society. People would much prefer to have special privileges.
Posts: 23095
Threads: 26
Joined: February 2, 2010
Reputation:
106
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 4:46 am
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2017 at 4:54 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(March 6, 2017 at 4:06 am)InquiringMind Wrote: I have an idea. Why has inequality in society (wealth, race, gender, etc.) stubbornly persisted in spite of many decades of efforts to alleviate it? Why has the discussion of privilege only intensified after much work to create equality? Here's idea:
No one actually wants an equal society.
How could you be rich if everyone had the same amount of money? How could you have the best job if all jobs were equally good? How could you be the best scientist if all scientists were equally good? How could you have an especially attractive mate if all people were equally attractive? If all posts on facebook were equally good, then why would it matter which ones you looked at?
In an equal society, there is never any chance to "get ahead" because everyone is equal. There is no such thing as "greatness" because everyone is equally good. No one wants this. Everyone wants the chance to "get ahead." Everyone wants a chance to climb to the top of the pyramid, to be a hero, and to be respected and admired above their peers.
No one wants equality. Every individual wants to live in a society where they, as an individual, are at they top of the social pyramid. People want high status, not equality.
What are your thoughts?
People want equality of opportunity.
(March 6, 2017 at 4:37 am)InquiringMind Wrote: (March 6, 2017 at 4:16 am)Alex K Wrote: No but seriously, there's a difference between equal chances/opportunities and everyone being identical.
I don't think that people even want equality of opportunity. I think most people would overwhelmingly prefer to be born into privilege. Why do you think that Disney princess movies and the British monarchy are so wildly popular? Why do so many people dream of winning the lottery? Because people want privilege, not equality. Especially if those privileges came from a windfall, like being born into royalty or winning the lottery.
No one wants an equal society. People would much prefer to have special privileges.
Well, the lottery is exactly equality of opportunity. Rich or poor, you draws your numbers and you come up empty.
Most poor people I know, and I know quite a few, don't peg their hopes on the lottery. They rather hope for an even chance, despite their broken teeth (can't afford dental insurance!), being stuck in a laborious job despite an aging body (because health care is bloody expensive too), wish they could afford college but cannot, and so on.
You come at it from the angle of the favored, but in my experience, the disfavored don't want a handout, they just want an honest chance in a rigged system.
Posts: 46164
Threads: 539
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 5:00 am
Yeah, I agree with other posters that the OP confuses 'equal' with 'identical'.
Sure, everyone would like to have a stroke of luck now and then, but the overwhelming majority of people who enjoy special privileges weren't born into a privileged class, but work their arse off to get where they are (I exempt clerics, criminals, and career politicians).
Most people probably aren't so much looking for that lotto win (although I doubt many would turn it down) as they are looking for a level playing field.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 420
Threads: 6
Joined: July 4, 2016
Reputation:
8
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 5:04 am
(March 6, 2017 at 4:37 am)InquiringMind Wrote: (March 6, 2017 at 4:16 am)Alex K Wrote: No but seriously, there's a difference between equal chances/opportunities and everyone being identical.
I don't think that people even want equality of opportunity. I think most people would overwhelmingly prefer to be born into privilege. Why do you think that Disney princess movies and the British monarchy are so wildly popular? Why do so many people dream of winning the lottery? Because people want privilege, not equality. Especially if those privileges came from a windfall, like being born into royalty or winning the lottery.
No one wants an equal society. People would much prefer to have special privileges. Well, I think virtually everyone is privileged over someway or another in one way or the other, to varying degrees.
I don't think privilege is important, it is how that privilege is asserted that is important.
Posts: 6002
Threads: 252
Joined: January 2, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 5:28 am
Complete equality of resources/wealth could only be achieved via oppression.
You'd have to force people who have abilities to gain resources to give up every little extra they earn.
It wouldn't really matter how much people want the kind of equality you're talking about, people aren't born equal.
I suppose it could work if people wanted everything to be equal so much that they accepted being oppressed and having their skills surpressed.
Most people don't want complete equality because they're at least a bit reasonable and intelligent and can figure out that it wouldn't work in society.
The kind of equality they want is for example not to lose out on a promotion because the other person going for the promotion is the bosses girlfriend or cousin or something along those lines.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
Posts: 8277
Threads: 47
Joined: September 12, 2015
Reputation:
42
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 5:29 am
(March 6, 2017 at 4:06 am)InquiringMind Wrote: I have an idea. Why has inequality in society (wealth, race, gender, etc.) stubbornly persisted in spite of many decades of efforts to alleviate it? Why has the discussion of privilege only intensified after much work to create equality?
If you actually look at what's been happening the last forty years you'd realise that serious efforts to equalise society stopped in the mid '70s. Before then (in terms of earning power at least) society was a lot flatter. Now; we're actually at worse levels of inequality than the '20s, and deliberately so.
Urbs Antiqua Fuit Studiisque Asperrima Belli
Home
Posts: 1572
Threads: 26
Joined: September 18, 2013
Reputation:
10
RE: No One Actually Wants an Equal Society
March 6, 2017 at 8:47 am
The Soviet system where everyone earned the same regardless of position or productivity produced a society where people tried to get away with doing as little as possible.
We see the same forces at work in Britain amongst those living on benefits.
Indeed you allude to this with the comment regarding the lottery; getting as much as you can for the least effort.
Effort and achievement needs to be rewarded in order to encourage more of the same, or it will be regarded as pointless.
Certainly the thresholds to achieving should be lowered so that opportunity doesn't become the preserve of the privileged, but it will still require effort and planning.
This is where I fundamentally disagree with the concept of the lottery as it is being used as an excuse for failing to plan, by those who then go on to moan about being denied opportunity.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
- Esquilax
Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
|
