Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin

[Whateverist]

Oy, the mental gymnastics are as fascinating as they are bizarre. You poor fundamentalist bastards.

[Mystical]

So two wrongs make a right, is that your position? 

Also, show me where it says that about the devils seedling children. Might wanna tell these guys they're doin it wrong! 

I don't recall him saying, the kingdom of heaven belongs to Jewish, non devil seed children such as these..

---

Where's Lek? Did Steve run off? 

Typical.

This is why I like dealing with Drich. He doesn't run off from the tough questions. Even if his answers induce full on secular terror!

Found in the parable of the wheat and weeds:
24 Then Jesus used another story to teach them. Jesus said, “God’s kingdom is like a man who planted good seed in his field. 25 That night, while everyone was asleep, the man’s enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat and then left. 26 Later, the wheat grew, and heads of grain grew on the plants. But at the same time the weeds also grew. 27 Then the man’s servants came to him and said, ‘You planted good seed in your field. Where did the weeds come from?’
28 “The man answered, ‘An enemy planted weeds.’
“The servants asked, ‘Do you want us to go and pull up the weeds?’
29 “He answered, ‘No, because when you pull up the weeds, you might also pull up the wheat. 30 Let the weeds and the wheat grow together until the harvest time. At the harvest time I will tell the workers this: First, gather the weeds and tie them together to be burned. Then gather the wheat and bring it to my barn.’”

---

...and Jesus Does love the little children and he did not turn them away as they in his eyes at that point have not produced any good or bad "fruit" Christ was constantly telling disciples it is by their fruits (their deeds) you will now people not by the rank, social station or title.) Jesus loved children even though He knew who they'd grow up to be. I believe his extended love to the 'weeds' is all apart of 'let them grow together, till the harvest.'

So you just assume, that every single Amelekite baby wiped from womb, was destined to be weeds despite their inability to make such a choice so they died, got sent to hell having made NO choice, and that is something you can live with?

[Harry Nevis]

Not to change the subject, but I find it ironic all outrage of possibly killing a limited number of babies in the OT in a very specific context when we as a society have killed hundreds of millions--largely for convenience--and it does not phase those same people.

I find it ironic that, when the bible says life begins with the first breath, christians still lie about all the "babies killed from abortion".  And it does phase people.  People aren't going gladly to have an abortion, then throwing an after party. Try showing as much compassion for a living, breathing human as you supposedly feel for a clump of cells.
The objection is that you guys crow about how much god loves us, how he's the pinnacle of goodness, but can accept the horrendous acts described in the bible as par for the course.  I'm amazed to read the "well, they were given warning, and the killers really believed they were doing good, so that's ok"

Creepy.

[Rhondazvous]

Steve, do you understand what a hypothetical question even is?
Because.. hypothetical questions are just that-- they're hypothetical.
The situation of --would you kill a baby if your god told you to-- does not need to align perfectly with reality (obviously) in order to have an answer at all, much less the fictional tales told in the bible. So your timey wimey flim flammy circles of deflection have zero bearing on the hypothetical question at hand.

You just don't want to answer, and you're doing so by insisting, for some outlandish reason, that hypothetical situations need to align perfectly with reality in order to have an answer at all! Which is just.. ridiculous. Just so you know, you're being ridiculous. Do you know what that means? I could ridicule you. But, I wont.

This whole you and Lek not being able to answer a simple hypothetical question (well I mean it's simple for me, I'd tell so and so god where to shove it!), is taking wayyyyy too much time and attention from the actual point I'm trying to impart upon you, and the subject of this thread. Blood sacrifice, as described in Old and New testament, and why it's even a requisite?

How could he answer such a question when the biblical god did command his so-called people o kill babies and even got angry at them when they had mercy on the people he told them to kill? He knows any answer he gives will make his beliefs fall apart, so his best course of action is to attack the question.

---

The same value as every other hypothetical. You're imagining a situation to see how you would behave within that scenario.

Now, you might not think that hypothetical can occur within reality, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that there's no answer, or nothing of value one might glean from it- in this case I'd suggest it'd give us a more comprehensive view of what you value within your moral worldview, which is instructive in a discussion on sin and god. I really can't imagine why theists are always so unwilling to engage with this specific hypothetical- and always in this specific, evasive way- other than that it presents a really bad image problem for y'all.

I know that neither answer to this question allows your beliefs to come out looking very good, but that's not the same as there not being an answer.

Except if I believe, in this case a command from God for me to kill a baby, cannot happen in reality (not possible),

So when the biblical god commands his people to kill the babies and pregnant women, what you're saying is that didn't happen in reality. Well, no one here believes the bible stories are real, so at least we agree on something. Welcome to the family, Steve.

[Lek]

ll me guys, if your self professed god irrefutably came and told you personally, without any doubt of his validity or your perception of reality-- to rip a baby out of its mothers womb and smash its head across the rocks, would you do it???

Sorry, I've been gone for awhile.  Since Jesus atoned for our sins by his sacrifice on the cross, God doesn't call for this type of actions.  Jesus took God's wrath upon himself for us.  If you think God is telling you to do something that he forbids you to do in scripture, like murder, you must always be suspect.  Hypothetically speaking, though, if God were to tell me to do this and I was 100% sure it was him, then I would do it.  God makes decisions with eternity in perspective and his actions are always for the good for those concerned.  I just don't think that this would ever happen.  Of course we can talk about someone who really believes that God is speaking to them when he isn't.  This can happen whether it's religiously motivated or brought on by some other completely different factors.  Someone could think his mother was telling him to do this instead of God.  Or he could just do it because he thinks it's a good idea.  On the other hand, he could really want to do it, but keep from doing it because he knows or believes that God doesn't want him to do it.

[SteveII]

Not to change the subject, but I find it ironic all outrage of possibly killing a limited number of babies in the OT in a very specific context when we as a society have killed hundreds of millions--largely for convenience--and it does not phase those same people.

I find it ironic that, when the bible says life begins with the first breath, christians still lie about all the "babies killed from abortion".  And it does phase people.  People aren't going gladly to have an abortion, then throwing an after party. Try showing as much compassion for a living, breathing human as you supposedly feel for a clump of cells.
The objection is that you guys crow about how much god loves us, how he's the pinnacle of goodness, but can accept the horrendous acts described in the bible as par for the course.  I'm amazed to read the "well, they were given warning, and the killers really believed they were doing good, so that's ok"

Creepy.

It does NOT say that life begins at first breath. Talk about torturing verses to get a meaning that was not intended!

YOU are a clump of cell! What makes you inherently different?

[Harry Nevis]

I find it ironic that, when the bible says life begins with the first breath, christians still lie about all the "babies killed from abortion".  And it does phase people.  People aren't going gladly to have an abortion, then throwing an after party. Try showing as much compassion for a living, breathing human as you supposedly feel for a clump of cells.
The objection is that you guys crow about how much god loves us, how he's the pinnacle of goodness, but can accept the horrendous acts described in the bible as par for the course.  I'm amazed to read the "well, they were given warning, and the killers really believed they were doing good, so that's ok"

Creepy.

It does NOT say that life begins at first breath. Talk about torturing verses to get a meaning that was not intended!

YOU are a clump of cell! What makes you inherently different?

I know that I am different.  If you can't discern the difference, well...

[Drich]

Found in the parable of the wheat and weeds:
24 Then Jesus used another story to teach them. Jesus said, “God’s kingdom is like a man who planted good seed in his field. 25 That night, while everyone was asleep, the man’s enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat and then left. 26 Later, the wheat grew, and heads of grain grew on the plants. But at the same time the weeds also grew. 27 Then the man’s servants came to him and said, ‘You planted good seed in your field. Where did the weeds come from?’
28 “The man answered, ‘An enemy planted weeds.’
“The servants asked, ‘Do you want us to go and pull up the weeds?’
29 “He answered, ‘No, because when you pull up the weeds, you might also pull up the wheat. 30 Let the weeds and the wheat grow together until the harvest time. At the harvest time I will tell the workers this: First, gather the weeds and tie them together to be burned. Then gather the wheat and bring it to my barn.’”

---

...and Jesus Does love the little children and he did not turn them away as they in his eyes at that point have not produced any good or bad "fruit" Christ was constantly telling disciples it is by their fruits (their deeds) you will now people not by the rank, social station or title.) Jesus loved children even though He knew who they'd grow up to be. I believe his extended love to the 'weeds' is all apart of 'let them grow together, till the harvest.'

So you just assume, that every single Amelekite baby wiped from womb,

Would you assume that every single ISIS, or Taliban or North Korean Baby would grow up hating the west like so many generations before them? Damn right they will or the "good ones' will be consumed by their culture.

was destined to be weeds despite their inability to make such a choice so they died, got sent to hell having made NO choice, and that is something you can live with?

Yes.
The Choice is to repent not to abstain or keep on keeping on.

If they are too young to have made that Choice then I rest or find assurance that they Go back to the very God that loves them. If they do not belong to The Father God then they will indeed still go back to their creator.
Why would Satan hate or be hard on His children?

[vorlon13]

uh . . .

cuz it's his job ?

[Harry Nevis]

So you just assume, that every single Amelekite baby wiped from womb,

Would you assume that every single ISIS, or Taliban or North Korean Baby would grow up hating the west like so many generations before them? Damn right they will or the "good ones' will be consumed by their culture.

was destined to be weeds despite their inability to make such a choice so they died, got sent to hell having made NO choice, and that is something you can live with?

Yes.
The Choice is to repent not to abstain or keep on keeping on.

If they are too young to have made that Choice then I rest or find assurance that they Go back to the very God that loves them. If they do not belong to The Father God then they will indeed still go back to their creator.
Why would Satan hate or be hard on His children?

You are a fucking god-soaked moron.  My cat has better morals than you.