Pat gets mad

[Napoléon]

What? Nappy,that's called "an argument from ignorance",a basic logical fallacy. Specifically ,it was a profoundly ignorant and bigoted thing to say. The kind of sweeping generalisation Condell makes.

I have never seen Rayaan try to convert anyone here,and NOBODY ever tried to convert me when I lived in a Muslim country.. In my experience, most believers of all stripes tend to be too busy making a life too worry about what others believe or do.T

Well I'm sorry pad, but I think it's you who is ignorant to what Islam actually is. Are you not aware that it's every muslim's duty to wage jihad?

I never said that's what EVERY muslim does try to do that, but that is what their religion demands. You cannot deny that.

[theVOID]

While I personally don't agree with banning a mosque/community centre near ground zero, I fully understand why people wouldn't want one there. Let's face facts. The people who killed thousands were self proclaimed muslims. Now I wouldn't say it was at all irrational, to say no to building a mosque at the site of all of those deaths which were supposedly 'in the name of Islam'.
I think it is absolutely insensitive.

People don't want lot's of things, as long as the thing they dislike harms nobody else then fuck them - You don't get to step on people's rights simply because you don't like their ideals. And who gives a shit if they were self proclaimed Muslims? They don't speak for 1 billion people.

Since when did someone calling themselves x provide good reason to step on the rights of everyone from group x? Do you not think Muslims have been given enough shit for the actions of some psychopaths who happen to share their religious views already? And if you're okay with stepping on them for the actions of the terrorists then are you okay with the idea of banning churches in Norway because of the actions of Anders Breivik?

As for the clothing. Maybe YOU can explain to ME why when paying for petrol at a petrol garage, a biker must remove his helmet. However a muslim in a headscarf can hide their identity? How about when in shopping centres people aren't allowed to wear hoodies (because it hides their identities), however muslims can walk about like ninjas.
Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to find balance in the law. Why have rules for some and not for others.

No head dresses in court/petrol stations etc is FINE. Banning it outright is bullshit.

---

Of course, Cain is one of your republicolibertarianazi icons so I guess you find that a tad embarrassing!

Uh, Cain is a neo-con, neo-conservatism=/=libertarianism...

And yeah, Cain might come off as a complete ass but comparing him to a totalitarian regime that exterminated entire racial demographics is complete and utter nonsense. Do you really think that were Cain to be given a dictatorial position tomorrow he'd start rounding up minorities and killing them? No? Then maybe you should show a little honesty and stop calling people Nazi's just because you disagree with their political position.

[Napoléon]

While I personally don't agree with banning a mosque/community centre near ground zero, I fully understand why people wouldn't want one there. Let's face facts. The people who killed thousands were self proclaimed muslims. Now I wouldn't say it was at all irrational, to say no to building a mosque at the site of all of those deaths which were supposedly 'in the name of Islam'.
I think it is absolutely insensitive.

People don't want lot's of things, as long as the thing they dislike harms nobody else then fuck them - You don't get to step on people's rights simply because you don't like their ideals. And who gives a shit if they were self proclaimed Muslims? They don't speak for 1 billion people.

Since when did someone calling themselves x provide good reason to step on the rights of everyone from group x? Do you not think Muslims have been given enough shit for the actions of some psychopaths who happen to share their religious views already? And if you're okay with stepping on them for the actions of the terrorists then are you okay with the idea of banning churches in Norway because of the actions of Anders Breivik?

Please read my fucking posts properly. I already said I don't agree with banning a mosque near ground zero in the very first sentence of what you quoted.

I'm just saying I understand the position of those who do.

[Judas BentHer]

In America just because you're religious doesn't mean you can occupy a vacant property and claim it in the name of your religion.

Ah, I was mistaken. I was under the impression the Muslims owned the property. I was not suggesting they have any entitlement to any special treatment. In fact I find the special l privileges often given to religions repugnant.

Not a problem.
I was a bit heated in my reply to you, choosing to take certain remarks of yours personally. My apologies.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Well I'm sorry pad, but I think it's you who is ignorant to what Islam actually is. Are you not aware that it's every muslim's duty to wage jihad?

Nappy, have you actually read the Q'uran? I have.How much time have you spent at university studying Islam? (I spent about a year) How many Muslim countries have you actually visited,let alone lived in?


Yes, I'm an ignorant man,but less than most non Muslims about Islam.Sadly, with your fatuous comment about jihad,you show your own willful ignorance.In context that means you are unwilling to listen or learn from anyone who may know what he's is talking about if he differs from your prejudices..

If if you ask him nicely, Rayaan may take the time to explain the meaning of "jihad" to you. I can't be bothered wasting my time .


I have nothing further to say to on this topic.

[Autumnlicious]

Pray tell, can you correct some misconceptions on Jihad then?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

No head dresses in court/petrol stations etc is FINE. Banning it outright is bullshit. indeed.

Here a person wearing a face covering is not permitted to buy petrol,the pump is not turned on for them. I don't know about burkhas,I've never actually seen one in my city.I presume the same applies.


On, I think it was in Sydney, a non Muslim male wore a burkha to rob a bank. I kid you not.

[Minimalist]

Do you really think that were Cain to be given a dictatorial position tomorrow he'd start rounding up minorities and killing them? No? Then maybe you should show a little honesty and stop calling people Nazi's just because you disagree with their political position.

If they were muslims, he just might judging by his rhetoric. And he might not be too fond of atheists, either. But be that as it may, when I look at Lawrence Britt's 14 Points of Fascism and compare it to the platform of the republicolibertarianazis I don't see a whole hell of a lot of difference.

In case you forgot, Void, even Hitler did not run on a program of exterminating Jews in gas chambers. The idea came to him later....after he had been in power for a while.


It always seems to happen that way.


And, Pad.

Nappy, have you actually read the Q'uran?

What does that have to do with the price of beans? It's apparently poorly written enough - much like the bible - so that it can be made to say whatever any demagogue wants it to say. For whatever purpose.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Pray tell, can you correct some misconceptions on Jihad then?

NO

Ask Rayaan or look it up.

Sorry, I've had it with this thread and will not comment further.

[theVOID]

While I personally don't agree with banning a mosque/community centre near ground zero, I fully understand why people wouldn't want one there. Let's face facts. The people who killed thousands were self proclaimed muslims. Now I wouldn't say it was at all irrational, to say no to building a mosque at the site of all of those deaths which were supposedly 'in the name of Islam'.
I think it is absolutely insensitive.

People don't want lot's of things, as long as the thing they dislike harms nobody else then fuck them - You don't get to step on people's rights simply because you don't like their ideals. And who gives a shit if they were self proclaimed Muslims? They don't speak for 1 billion people.

Since when did someone calling themselves x provide good reason to step on the rights of everyone from group x? Do you not think Muslims have been given enough shit for the actions of some psychopaths who happen to share their religious views already? And if you're okay with stepping on them for the actions of the terrorists then are you okay with the idea of banning churches in Norway because of the actions of Anders Breivik?

Please read my fucking posts properly. I already said I don't agree with banning a mosque near ground zero in the very first sentence of what you quoted.

I'm just saying I understand the position of those who do.

Ah, sorry, I misread you.

Yeah, I understand their anger too (in that i understand what drives their bigotry) but I also deplore the idea that because of the actions of Muslim terrorists all Muslims can be subjugated and have their rights removed. Even going so far as to attack 1 billion people in an unofficial capacity is unreasonable to me, they're free to condemn and speak against whomever they like for whatever reason, whether or not it's just is another issue.

---

No head dresses in court/petrol stations etc is FINE. Banning it outright is bullshit. indeed.

Here a person wearing a face covering is not permitted to buy petrol,the pump is not turned on for them. I don't know about burkhas,I've never actually seen one in my city.I presume the same applies.


On, I think it was in Sydney, a non Muslim male wore a burkha to rob a bank. I kid you not.

Neither have I, we only see the head scarfs here and that too is amongst a minority of Muslim women - A girl I dated was a Fijian Muslim, her family was cool and none of them war specific clothing, I was discussing some religious artifacts they had and the subject of religion came up, they were perfectly fine with my being an Atheist who is an active part of a community - After a short discussion it became rather clear that they believe in Islam because it gives them hope, I didn't want to argue that in their home. Despite this girl being a damn sexy little thing she was too straight edge, no fun

There was also a case here where a judge told a woman to remove her head scarf and after she refused she was removed from court - I think this is a little unreasonable considering her face was visible and other religious groups like Orthodox Jews are free to wear their little hat thing - She filed a complaint with the human rights tribune but withdrew after the judge apologized.

---

Do you really think that were Cain to be given a dictatorial position tomorrow he'd start rounding up minorities and killing them? No? Then maybe you should show a little honesty and stop calling people Nazi's just because you disagree with their political position.

If they were muslims, he just might judging by his rhetoric. And he might not be too fond of atheists, either. But be that as it may, when I look at Lawrence Britt's 14 Points of Fascism and compare it to the platform of the republicolibertarianazis I don't see a whole hell of a lot of difference.

In case you forgot, Void, even Hitler did not run on a program of exterminating Jews in gas chambers. The idea came to him later....after he had been in power for a while.

He might not like Muslims or Atheists, he might even instill "Christian values" in the institution which would make him a complete authoritarian twat, but I would bet my business that he wouldn't round up and kill people, regardless of how long he was in power.

And fascism requires at minimum Authoritarianism (+Neo-con -lib), Nationalism (+Neo-con ?lib), totalitarianism (?neo-con -lib) and a unified national agenda (+Neo con -Lib). The libertarian political philosophy fails all of those in criteria aside from Nationalism which could be present given the attitudes of the individuals in a society (cultural nationalism/patriotism as oppose to mandated/indoctrinated nationalism). Americans in general are Nationalists, so the libertarians over there are somewhat nationalistic, over here however there is almost zero kiwi nationalism, thus there is zero nationalism amongst the Libertarianz.

And, Pad.

Nappy, have you actually read the Q'uran?

What does that have to do with the price of beans? It's apparently poorly written enough - much like the bible - so that it can be made to say whatever any demagogue wants it to say. For whatever purpose.

It's the old adage of "God coincidentally hating the same people as you do" but people will run with their assumed divine mandate regardless of it being from a holy book, preaching, culture or their own personal "sensus divinitatus", the only real solution is to engage them in debate, fight for secular government and educate people. Tough battle, but it seems to be making ground.