Is Accepting Christian Evidence Special Pleading?

[Harry Nevis]

Other people who wrote about Jesus...long after Jesus supposedly lived. There are no contemporary accounts. So while there are many people who believed the same things as Paul and/or believed Paul, that doesn't corroborate the claims coming from Paul's head. So no, there is no more reason to believe Saul of Tarsus than Joseph Smith, and yet some do choose to believe one over the other (special pleading).

That sounds like a claim, in need of support.

It's a response to a claim.  Pay attention and try to keep up.

[vorlon13]

I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters. That book is true. ...It contains the everlasting gospel, and came forth to the children of men in fulfillment of the revelations of John, where he says he saw an angel come with the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of salvation; and if you, my hearers, will walk by its light and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God on high.

Oliver Cowdery

[TheBeardedDude]

That sounds like a claim, in need of support.

It's a response to a claim.  Pay attention and try to keep up.

Yeah, I am confused as to how I was making any sort of independent claim in what I said.

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I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters. That book is true. ...It contains the everlasting gospel, and came forth to the children of men in fulfillment of the revelations of John, where he says he saw an angel come with the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. It contains principles of salvation; and if you, my hearers, will walk by its light and obey its precepts, you will be saved with an everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God on high.

Oliver Cowdery

MORMONISM HERE I COME!!!! 


Wait...no...never mind

[vorlon13]

Young man, do you see that sun shining through that window? Just so sure as that sun shines and gives us light by day, and the moon and stars give us light by night, just so sure I know the Book of Mormon is true. For I saw the angel, I heard his voice, I saw and handled the plates upon which the Book of Mormon was written; and by the power and influence of the Holy Ghost, the translation was made by the Prophet Joseph Smith, whom I know by the power and gift of the Holy Ghost, was a true Prophet of God....

Martin Harris

[RoadRunner79]

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Other people who wrote about Jesus...long after Jesus supposedly lived. There are no contemporary accounts. So while there are many people who believed the same things as Paul and/or believed Paul, that doesn't corroborate the claims coming from Paul's head. So no, there is no more reason to believe Saul of Tarsus than Joseph Smith, and yet some do choose to believe one over the other (special pleading).

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And there is the special pleading. So while the delusions of one man are unacceptable, they are acceptable for another. This is an excellent example of Christian special pleading.

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Perhaps a refresher...

Special Pleading: Applying standards, principles, and/or rules to other people or circumstances, while making oneself or certain circumstances exempt from the same critical criteria, without providing adequate justification. Special pleading is often a result of strong emotional beliefs that interfere with reason.

The only circumstances that were similar in this situation were that something was written. Everything else was different. So, we have one similarity and hundreds of dissimilarities. Therefore the circumstance were not even close to being similar and therefore no special pleading can occur.

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These conversations always remind me of the movie "Liar Liar" with Jim Carrey

Fletcher: [while hearing Mrs. Cole having sex on an audio cassette]
Fletcher: Oh, come on! Your honor, how can it be proved that the male voice on that tape is not Mr. Cole himself?
Samantha: [voice on tape] You are such a better lover than my husband!

Fletcher: Your honor, I object!
Judge Stevens: And why is that, Mr. Reede?
Fletcher: It's devastating to my case!

Judge Stevens: Overruled.
Fletcher: Good call!

They have to ignore or wipe away, so much intersecting support within history, and don't have very good reasons to do so.

[TheBeardedDude]

Young man, do you see that sun shining through that window? Just so sure as that sun shines and gives us light by day, and the moon and stars give us light by night, just so sure I know the Book of Mormon is true. For I saw the angel, I heard his voice, I saw and handled the plates upon which the Book of Mormon was written; and by the power and influence of the Holy Ghost, the translation was made by the Prophet Joseph Smith, whom I know by the power and gift of the Holy Ghost, was a true Prophet of God....

Martin Harris

I want to smoke whatever he was smoking

[RoadRunner79]

It's a response to a claim.  Pay attention and try to keep up.

Yeah, I am confused as to how I was making any sort of independent claim in what I said.

Ok... If you where not making any type of claim, then there is no refutation to consider... problem solved - Thanks

[vorlon13]

"It was in June 1829, the very last part of the month, and the eight witnesses, I think, the next day. Joseph showed them the plates himself. We (the Three Witnesses) not only saw the plates of the book of Mormon, but the Brass Plates, the plates containing the record of the wickedness of the people of the world, and many other plates. The fact is, it was just as though Joseph, Oliver and I were sitting right here on a log, when we were overshadowed by a light. It was not like the light of the sun, nor like that of a fire, but more glorious and beautiful. It extended away round us, I cannot tell how far, but in the midst of this light, immediately before us, about as far off as he sits (pointing to John C. Whitmer who was sitting 2 or 3 feet from him) there appeared, as it were, a table, with many records on it, besides the plates of the Book of Mormon; also the sword of Laban, the Directors (i.e. the ball which Lehi had) and the Interpreters. I saw them just as plain as I see this bed (striking his hand upon the bed beside him), and I heard the voice of the Lord as distinctly as I ever heard anything in my life declaring that they (the plates) were translated by the gift and power of God."

David Whitmer

[LadyForCamus]

Paul is as fucking phony as "jesus."

Even xristards know this.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail...ical-paul/

What can we reliably know about Paul and how can we know it? As is the case with Jesus, this is not an easy question. Historians have been involved in what has been called the “Quest for the Historical Jesus” for the past one hundred and seventy-five years, evaluating and sifting through our sources, trying to determine what we can reliably say about him.[/url] As it happens, the quest for the historical Paul began almost simultaneously, inaugurated by the German scholar Ferdinand Christian Baur.[url=https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/people-in-the-bible/the-quest-for-the-historical-paul/#note02][ii] Baur put his finger squarely on the problem: There are [i]four different “Pauls” in the New Testament, not one, and each is quite distinct from the others. New Testament scholars today are generally agreed on this point.[/i]

F. C. Baur died in 1860 so this is not exactly news except to idiots who have their heads firmly shoved up their asses.

I'd like to hear thoughts on this.  ^

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...2. For the purposes of this discussion (and not heading down any rabbit trails) I believe the basic claims in the NT surrounding the life and death of Jesus Christ. I believe Paul was who he said he was. I believe that most of the epistles are what they appear to be...

Paul is a character in the bible, he does not appear in history. Unless of course you have evidence to the contrary?

Bold mine:

Steve, what evidence lead you to these two beliefs, and why do you find that evidence persuasive?

[vorlon13]

I should be getting a 7% commission from the LDS hierarchy for all the members I'm bringing in.